Author Topic: Even more bad news  (Read 4376 times)
form109
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Even more bad news « on: November 28, 2008, 01:34:52 PM » Author: form109
I found this article on google, West Kittanning is also doing away with their older mercury streetlights too. :'(

KITTANNING -- Decorative holiday lights may not be the only brightness in the borough this winter. Monday, borough council voted unanimously to allow Allegheny Power to begin replacing current mercury vapor street lights with high pressure sodium lights.

Allegheny Power account manager Robin Martin said high pressure sodium lights will provide more light, measured by lumens, per watt than mercury vapor lights, enhancing lighting on borough streets. She told council that Kittanning is one of the first boroughs in several counties to be selected for light replacement. The lights will be replaced at no cost to the borough other than a slight increase in monthly bills.

Council president Gerald Shuster said enhanced lighting was necessary for safety reasons, andthat a small increase in monthly charges was worth it. He asked Martin for specific details on the increased amount of lighting that could be gained by switching to sodium lights.

Martin said that a 175-watt mercury vapor street light provides approximately 8,150 lumens of light. A lumen is a unit of measured light. By comparison Martin said a 100-watt sodium light would provide 9,500 lumens, or approximately 14 percent more light.

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Martin said the borough currently has 298, 175-watt street lights; 27, 250-watt lights; 60, 400-watt; and one, 1000-watt light. The average light bill for the borough using the present mercury vapor lights is approximately $4,644. A light for light replacement with high pressure sodium lights would increase the borough's light bill to approximately $5,300, or an increase of slightly more than $650 per month.

Later, council member Mary Piluso said the borough's light bill is paid with property tax revenues. She said she could foresee no raise in taxes to pay for the increased lighting.

Both Shuster and Piluso said better lighting will serve to deter vandalism and other types of crime.

"If we don't do this today, down the road we will," Piluso said. "We are the county seat so we have to take the lead in these matters."

Martin said the light replacement process will begin once Allegheny Power receives a work request from the borough.

"Once we receive an official request from the borough," she said, "we will turn the matter over to our design and engineering team. They have to verify the physical location of each light and then order the correct number of lights and wattages. Once the lights are shipped to our Kittanning service center work may begin, contingent on the weather and providing that our crews are not called out for emergency assistance in other areas such as in case of a severe weather-related emergency."

Martin said a light-for-light exchange would take approximately six to eight weeks, again, depending on weather.

Piluso said after the work is done, council will re-assess street lighting needs to determine if additional lights are needed in certain areas, or if some increased wattage lights are needed. She said council said additional lighting may be needed in areas such as the upper end of North Water Street, behind the Kittanning High School football field, North Grant Avenue and some areas of the Armstrong Trail.

Although council has requested Allegheny Power study the borough's street light situation for several months, some council members, and borough Police Chief Ed Cassesse, felt that their requests were being ignored. Last month Shuster said part of the problem was that utility company representatives were not located in Pittsburgh or Greensburg, but often in other states. He said, at the same time, that that local representatives of Allegheny Power were not responsible for work not being done. He suggested that council consider withholding power bill payment as a way to call attention to what he felt was poor service by not having dim or burned out lights replaced.

Martin told council that a special toll-free hotline, called Allegheny Pro Advantage Straight Line for Business, has been established and the line would expedite response to requests or concerns the borough might have regarding any Allegheny Power question. She assured council that using the toll-free business line would insure individual attention whether the call required a simple answer or a thorough investigation.
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chapman84
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Re: Even more bad news « Reply #1 on: November 28, 2008, 01:39:13 PM » Author: chapman84
with the bad color contrast of high pressure sodium,it seems they are actually lowering visability.
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chapman84
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Re: Even more bad news « Reply #2 on: November 28, 2008, 02:49:48 PM » Author: chapman84
Communities tend to have the wrong idea that newer high pressure sodium lights are going to last longer than mercury vapor lights and that's just not true. The older ones have outlasted most newer lights out there. Most streetlights in that town have seen 30-40+ years of service. The newer ones only see 3-8 years of service. Even newer mercs last longer than low quality high pressure sodium lights. I noticed Allegheny Power replaced (5) 175 watt mercury vapor streetlights with 400 watt high pressure sodium ones near the fire hall. Not very efficient, those actually cost even more to operate than low wattage mercury vapor lights.

I know some people think newer is better, but it's not.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2008, 07:27:18 PM by chapman84 » Logged
arcblue
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Re: Even more bad news « Reply #3 on: December 01, 2008, 03:44:53 PM » Author: arcblue
They are SO behind the times. Which makes sense, if they are still running a predominantly mercury vapor streetlighting system.

I'm beginning to think that many municipalities have to go thru each historical phase without skipping. Therefore, incandescent to mercury to HPS to metal halide/LED/induction. Power companies are not necessarily knowledgeable about the latest lighting technology.

The account manager is right that the HPS lights will give more lumens per watt, but people do NOT necessarily want more lumens in front of their homes; HPS will NOT reduce the crime rate; many people will NOT like the color; and they will be paying MORE for these lights as indicated in the article (not to mention higher cost of replacement lamps, plus more frequent replacement).

"We are in the County seat so we have to take the lead on such matters" - typical bureaucratic nonsense from people that have little actual knowledge on lighting topics and don't have the time or interest to gain any....so they just go by the numbers.

I think us collectors need to be prepared for the fall though, and get ready to purchase a whole bunch of nice vintage mercury streetlights at scrap cost. I get first dibs on that 1000w unit ;D
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gmercury2000
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Re: Even more bad news « Reply #4 on: December 01, 2008, 05:55:59 PM » Author: gmercury2000
Plus another thing to look at like said earlier is the amount of visible light. You may get about 14% more lumen per watt with a 100w HPS over a 175w MV but the usable light is not any better. Really you would need a 150w HPS to get close to the same visible and useful light output. The lack of maintenance seems to be their problem here. With a town that small there is no reason they cant hire a maintenance crew to do a group replacement every couple years. Our local utility maintains roughly 270,000 lights and we have our fair share out but its not that bad. Plus look at cities like New York and other major cities. Their maintenance is a lot better that these small towns. This town talks about the lights that are dimmed and burned out, I guess they figure lets just install all new lights and they will all work properly. Well they may for the first year or so but after that they will be in the same boat but instead of dimmed out they will be cycling.
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form109
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Re: Even more bad news « Reply #5 on: December 01, 2008, 08:41:54 PM » Author: form109
yeah,i have noticed that mercury vapor lamps have greater visibility and contrast than high pressure sodium lamps,several towns in east texas still have and maintain older mercury vapor installations,and the maintenence seems fairly decent.
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arcblue
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Re: Even more bad news « Reply #6 on: December 01, 2008, 11:12:53 PM » Author: arcblue
Again I suppose the electrician-types that are not knowledgeable about lighting would not replace a lamp unless it is not lighting up at all...despite it being dim, "it still works"!

On the other hand, is it more effective to keep an old, dimmed out Lifeguard mercury lamp in service or replace it with a new Sylvania lamp that will probably quit in a few months?

I have two NEMA fixtures next to each other in my garage - a 175w merc and a 150w HPS. Without any shadow of a doubt, the 150w HPS is brighter, but compared to a 100w HPS (which I also have), the 175w mercury wins in visibility, hands down. So there's only so far you can drop wattage for energy savings. It's like the utility company here which gives people free 13w CFL's to replace their household lamps. People say they are dim and go back to the incandescent. If they used a 23w CFL they might have a chance.
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chapman84
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Re: Even more bad news « Reply #7 on: December 03, 2008, 05:33:54 PM » Author: chapman84
UPDATE 12/3/2008: Springdale is also experiencing the high pressure sodium nightmare that has just begun. Just when you thought it couldn't get worse. :'(
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Re: Even more bad news « Reply #8 on: December 09, 2008, 04:14:47 AM » Author: TudorWhiz
I'll rather drive through a dimmed out road than get startled by a cycler and crash into a fire hydrant cuz a cycler startled me....
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chapman84
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Re: Even more bad news « Reply #9 on: December 09, 2008, 03:04:08 PM » Author: chapman84
Cycling high pressure sodium lights tend to make towns look like they're haunted by ghosts or something. :o
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Re: Even more bad news « Reply #10 on: December 09, 2008, 04:38:42 PM » Author: Mercury Man
Cycling HPS lamps are a chronic epidemic here on Long Island. It is one of the most annoying things about this particular lighting source.  And when the HPS post-top street lamp in front of my house began cycling about a year or so ago, I called the highway department twice and it took them THREE WEEKS to correct the problem.  Needless to say, I had to deal with a cycling lamp shining in my bedroom window for that amount of time. On off on off on off all night. NOT COOL!!! 
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Mercury Man
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Re: Even more bad news « Reply #11 on: December 09, 2008, 04:40:01 PM » Author: Mercury Man
Cycling HPS lamps are a chronic epidemic here on Long Island. It is one of the most annoying things about this particular lighting source.  And when the HPS post-top street lamp in front of my house began cycling about a year or so ago, I called the highway department twice and it took them THREE WEEKS to come and relamp the fixture.  Needless to say, I had to deal with a cycling lamp shining in my bedroom window for that amount of time. On off on off on off all night. NOT COOL!!!   >:(
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Re: Even more bad news « Reply #12 on: December 09, 2008, 05:51:52 PM » Author: Foxtronix
A M400A Powr/Door installed in Jan. 2007 began to cycle about a month ago. Knowing that the electricity company here installs Philips Alto lamps, these lamps are PURE JUNK! 10 months of service! A few meters farther, a Sylvania Powr/Bracket 400W mercury with a Sylvania lamp began to cycle after 17 months of service. Here again: PURE JUNK! Some high-quality lamps that dates probably from the conversion mercury -> HPS are even not cycling!
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