Author Topic: Self ballasted metal halide???  (Read 4265 times)
Lumex120
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Self ballasted metal halide??? « on: August 25, 2015, 10:55:18 AM » Author: Lumex120
I found the picture below on google images. they look like SBMV lamps, only with a MH arctube.  ???

I thought that this was not possible. I guess it is? You can see a halogen tube for the "ballast", so I guess it does work...

Also, check this out. Too bad it's not 120v.  ::)
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/70W-E27-CRI80-CCT3000K-Self-ballasted-Intergrated-hid-energy-saving-ceramic-metal-halide-bulb-outdoors-indoors/32372975754.html
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Ash
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Re: Self ballasted metal halide??? « Reply #1 on: August 25, 2015, 11:06:33 AM » Author: Ash
Looks like all the stuff that failed the market in the 80s is now going well with Chinese manufacture and prices....

The self ballasted MH (with ballast consisting of incandescent-resistor and electronics) use was made by GE allready in 1981, with ~30W arc tube, and for 120V. The thing worked well but had only short life on the market if any, and that is a shame

It came out too early when there was too little awareness and demand for it, so with the CFLs starting to come out as well (by Philips), there was not enough demand to keep both product s on the market and the CFLs won
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dor123
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Re: Self ballasted metal halide??? « Reply #2 on: August 25, 2015, 12:16:16 PM » Author: dor123
The filament inside the GE Halarc, isn't the ballast like in the SBMV lamp, as it remains lighted during the hot restrike of the lamp (When the arc extingushed, in contrast to SBMV, which the filament can't light if the arc extingushed during hot restrike).
The filament allow less complicated ballast in the lamp.
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Re: Self ballasted metal halide??? « Reply #3 on: August 25, 2015, 06:12:54 PM » Author: Medved
In the Halarc the filament is the main ballasting impedance, but it needs some support circuit to operate. The filament is connected directly to mains, when the discharge is missing, as the support circuit does not need it until the arc gets ignited. After ignition the filament regulates the main power, but the support circuit has to support at least some tiny discharge when the mains voltage is below the arc voltage (around voltage zero cross), so can not feed the arc directly. Without that the arc would not reignite from just the 120V.

Anyway with the lamps presented here I have some doubts about being really MH. I would not be that much surprised, if they are just MV, only designed for higher pressure.
Or maybe they are "Metal halide", but the "metal" being just the mercury...
The problem is, the regular MH chemistry has quite short living free charges in the arc stream, the typical series choke is just marginal to reignite it after the nearly zero time zero crossing (small fluctuations and the arc tend to extinguish), that would not hold with the long gap without current as present with the resistive ballast.
Mercury is way slower, so usually it is able to work with just a resistor (= filament lamp)as a ballast.
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Re: Self ballasted metal halide??? « Reply #4 on: August 25, 2015, 06:27:02 PM » Author: Ash
Could be halide (with at least one actual halide) but at lower pressure ?
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BlueHalide
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Re: Self ballasted metal halide??? « Reply #5 on: August 25, 2015, 08:47:30 PM » Author: BlueHalide
My employer received one of these exact same lamps from some Chinese manufacturer as a sample nearly 2 years ago. Even had the same MH-looking arctube. Two things, first, it was very hard to tell due to the increased operating pressure of the mercury but there was seemingly no actual halide salts in the arc tube, as the color was just like an overdriven standard mercury lamp. its simply a MH burner, but only with mercury. Second, the "400w" rated lamp actually used 680w. Needless to say, we didn't order any of these, even though he wasn't really intending to in the first place, just requested one for curiosity sake.
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tolivac
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Re: Self ballasted metal halide??? « Reply #6 on: August 26, 2015, 12:43:17 AM » Author: tolivac
Another complaint about the early GE Halarc lamps was that they caused severe RFI on the AM band.AM stations brought that issue to the FCC and they weren't happy.either.Would think with more modern technology-the Halarc bulb could be tried again.It could be an alternative to CFL and LED.-another choice!
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Medved
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Re: Self ballasted metal halide??? « Reply #7 on: August 26, 2015, 01:18:05 AM » Author: Medved
The high pressure discharge is not that practical source, mainly due to the slow ramp up, so limited usability, and generally low efficacy and high cost of the lower lumen packages. The problem is, all the components for a 35W MH cost nearly the same as for a 400W MH.
And because of the domestic use pattern, the MH life would be barely 3000 hours (normally the HID's are rated for 10hours/start, where still the starting wear is, what limits the life), that is way too short for that expensive lamps.
For 400W there is not much competition when speaking about operating cost, but the 35W can not compete with the fluorescents or even LED's these days, mainly for domestic market (with relatively low hours per start). Plus even the 35W MH is too strong for a single lamp for most domestic use, there you need packages in the range of 400 to 1200lm. And that is the range, where the LED's are wiping the market over: Immediate start, efficacy in the 70..100lm/W (mainly with the 400lm packages there is no other light source reaching that), even three 12W lamps cost the same or less than the 35W MH system, yet have the same efficacy (don't forget the ballast losses, the 12W already includes them). And if not the LED's, the CFL's are so cheap and the efficacy not that bad, while still acceptable runup and tolerance towards some switching.


I would guess the AM disturbance of the Halarc came from the support circuit creating HF oscillations with the discharge.
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