This arose in a conversation with my brother and I'd like to get things straight. Is a fluorescent tube made in the 1950s more dangerous to one's health (as far as what it contains) than a full-mercury tube from, say, 2000? Is there any more mercury in the older one, or are there other dangerous substances in older lamps that are not in newer ones?

early fluorescents contained beryllium compounds.that ended in the late 40's.
i have seen big globs of mercury in newer lamps too.

It is possible that they used more harmful phosphors. But even today fluorescent lamp phosphors are better avoided, so the measures of caution are the same for all lamps

yeah dont go out of your way to breathe phosphor dust or cut yourself on broken lamps.but much less harmful than they once were.

Hi, according to the photos I've seen in the galleries, I think I have two of these 1945-1949's beryllium tubes:
- they are General Electric with brass end caps;
- "20 W WHITE" is written on them;
- the tint looks to be 3500K;
- the "flickering dark bands" (I don't know the name of that, the bands you see when moving a white pen on a black background for example) are brown and not bright yellow as with halophosphates.

Does this mean that they are berillium tubes? I haven't noticed whether the tubes glowed when switched off.

I store them well protected in a box on which I have written "Danger, old fluorescent tubes, don't breath the powder if broken".

By the way I wonder how much these tubes are dangerous. In the same way as thorium mantles for gas mantles are dangerous for workers rather than users, I understand that repeated exposure to beryllium dust were very harmful to workers, but hardly imagine that such dangerous items remained allowed among the general public for several decades in America and Europe.
However I read in this old medical report (http://www.ccjm.org/content/17/1/34.full.pdf) that someone had painful skin lesions in the 1940's when a tube exploded* in their hands .

* Can fluorescent tubes explode for no apparent reason? I guess so if there are invisible shocks, thermal stresses, etc.

I would be carefull with them equally as any other lamp. I think if you clean up proprly and avoid getting cut from the glass it is ok. Besides thats some rare old tubes, isnt that alone good enouh reason to be carefull with them ?

I had a F96T12 HO break in half in my hand once. I found it on the earth in a construction site. Picked it in the center with 1 hand and lifted up. I walked 1 meter with it and the tube snapped in half (with the bang of vacuum loss) right under my hand near the front of the area i was holding, and cut me a bit at that (nothing serious). one half of the tube fell and shattered. The other had perfect circle edge very clean cut. I dont know what happened but probably there was some defect, maybe it was hit beforehands and chipped a bit at the spot

Besides thats some rare old tubes, isnt that alone good enouh reason to be carefull with them ?

Yes it is, however if you break a rare lamp it's good to know whether you use a handkerchief or a dust mask to cry

Seriously, I wonder whether I should wrap these tubes in an extra layer of garbage bag to avoid any dust if something happens (e.g. my 1950's kitchen cabinet falls!).

For example, people who visit or renovate abandoned places should be aware of this kind of risks.

I had a F96T12 HO break in half in my hand once. I found it on the earth in a construction site. Picked it in the center with 1 hand and lifted up. I walked 1 meter with it and the tube snapped in half (with the bang of vacuum loss) right under my hand near the front of the area i was holding, and cut me a bit at that (nothing serious). one half of the tube fell and shattered. The other had perfect circle edge very clean cut. I dont know what happened but probably there was some defect, maybe it was hit beforehands and chipped a bit at the spot

This is good to know that the risk is real. Hopefully nothing serious happened.

Anyway, I think any collector (of electric lamps, glass oil lamps, dishes, etc.) has once dropped an old item. It happens but I think that overall collectors save more rare items than they break ones!

There was a post in the gallrey about a lantern with few 40w tubes that detached from a drywall ceiling and came crashing to the floor, now this is primary example of bad mounting, nothing else.... If you doubt in the mounting of something, how about taking it down to actually check how well it is held up

As for cleaning it all up - I think a wet mop will stick all the phosphor together and prevent it from getting up in the air, and vent the room. Thats what i would do with any lamp breakage, phosphors in new lamp might not be as toxic but are still pretty nasty stuff

I was thinking of earthquake that makes your kitchen cabinets detach from the wall, or similar serious events. I think that if you doubt in the mounting but are not able to make it better, you should use modern tubes. I remember this story but it's good to post the link in this thread.

BUT sometimes as a lamp collector* you want to educate your friends or simply want to watch one of your oldies for yourself, then you may drop the lamp and break it. It happens and some of my friends* experienced it -- I don't judge them and consider I'm lucky. My oldest lamp dates from the 18th century but is not a rarity, while these 1940's beryllium are more precious IMO.

* I'm talking of both flame and electric bulbs.

Indeed wet mops help a lot -- for example I used water to soak then remove asbestos from my carbon arc projector.

BTW, about the "dangers" of older fluorescent lamps, as per all the discussions I've understood that three categories of risks exist:

1. Beryllium phosphors:
- That's what has been discussed above.
- What I should do: keep these oldies well protected!

2. PCB ballasts:
- It seems that the risk of leakage does exist, especially with EOL tubes, but I'll see or smell it quickly so that there's no risk of long-term contamination. Correct?
- Actually I use daily three vintage F15T8 desk lamps; my current kitchen ceiling lamp is a fluorescent Fleur-o-Ray fixture with glass end caps that should date from the late 1940's. So as long as it doesn't smell bad and as long as the external fixture body is cold/warm to touch (not hot), I'm OK. Correct?
- What I should do: nothing? replacing the starter only if it leaks? replacing it anyway? (I prefer keeping old fixtures as is with all parts original, unless they fail.)

3. Paper wax capacitors in starters:
- There's a risk of fire when using these starters, especially with EOL tubes, but the fire should be limited to the starter.
- What I should do: check whether my old starters currently in use contain a wax capacitor and simply remove the latter - or use modern starters (with a metal envelope to keep a vintage look). Correct?


With incandescent:
- No specific risk except checking voltage if my circuit is in 220-240V.
- Halogen bulbs without double-envelope emit a lot of UV, so always make sure that a glass envelope covers the inner quartz bulb.
- (Edit) Bulbs may explode at EOL in some places; if it happens, stop using incandescent (see Medved's reply below).

With carbon arc:
- Always protect my eyes and skin if the carbons are bare.
- Always use a ballast/resistor.
- If the carbons are enclosed: I guess the original globe should be sufficient; however an extra protection or a limited time of use should be safer. Right?

PCB in ballasts: Once they leak, the oil contaminate the surrounding. It depend, how far they reach, but getting them from e.g. textiles would be nearly impossible.
So make sure there is a containment placed so, it would catch and hold the oil in case of an eventual leak. Do not rely on your ability to rectify the leak after it occur, the oil would be faster than you...

Incandescents: In some places the incandescents tend to explode at the end of their life. It is not related to the voltage fluctuation, but more to the mains impedance, so short circuit current: If the mains impedance is too low, the arc, developing when the filament is breaking, becomes too fat to be handled by the bulb.
If you observe lamp exploding at their end of life (normal end, no thermal shock abuse or so), better stop using all incandescents there and convert to some other light source, maybe except low wattage vacuum lamps - there is no atmosphere to support the arc at the EOL.
But when your lamps die peacefully at your place, there is nothing to worry about and the incandescents are perfectly safe there.

Thanks for the reply, I'm editing the list above.

About PCB leakage: considering that I use my vintage fluorescent lamps daily (up to several hours for my ceiling fixture and another desk lamp) but not 24/7 in hot environment, also considering that I don't know how many hours they were used before I bought them in a flea market, is the risk of PCB leakage very high?

PCB balasts :

Some of the small chokes (15-20w) are not potted at all, to the best of my knowledge ballasts which are not potted dont contain PCBs. The PCBs are contained in capacitors and in general filling material in potted ballasts

The rest Medved allready told you



Starters :

In metal enclosure starters the original fault will be contained in the starter, but still the hot starter can melt the starter socket and burn other parts of the lantern. There can form a short from the capacitor inside the starter to the starter's enclosure, and if the starter's enclosure is touching the lantern metal, it can cause stuff like the lantern becoming shocking (if not earthed), blowing the tube's electrodes (if ballast is on the neutral), make some arcing in the point of contact between the starter and lantern, and similar stuff

So i'd remove a capacitor with high risk of burning up anyway even if the starter is metal

The odd thing - Despite that wax capacitors are associated with vintage starters, i found several wax capacitors in cheap plastic starters from the early 90's, but none in the few old metal can starters i opened....



Incandescents/Halogens :

I read some suggestions like using a dimmer for testing vintage/ancient incandescents lighting them up slowly and not at once - looks good to me

Halogens explode as part of normal EOL so dont place them over flammable stuff. Incandescents explode (or just shoot the entire glass envelope out from the base) usually if they are from some cheap low quality manufacturer. With high quality incandescent this is a very rare occurence but still can happen



Carbon arc :

I think youre right

Some of the small chokes (15-20w) are not potted at all, to the best of my knowledge ballasts which are not potted dont contain PCBs. The PCBs are contained in capacitors and in general filling material in potted ballasts

I've just realized that my Dazor for example have "bare" ballasts (phew!) while my bed lamp (see photo) might leak despite its small 1 x 15W ballasts.

Starters : [...] So i'd remove a capacitor with high risk of burning up anyway even if the starter is metal

Interesting explanations
That what I've already done on my wax starters that I use: 8×
(This is a scissor smiley!   )

The odd thing - Despite that wax capacitors are associated with vintage starters, i found several wax capacitors in cheap plastic starters from the early 90's, but none in the few old metal can starters i opened....

All my plastic starters are 6000 km away at my parents', and I don't remember whether I encountered wax capacitors when I collected them in the 90's, so you've made me curious and I should check next time I'll go there.

BTW I recently looked at transparent plastic FS2 starters at Canadian Tire (kind of Home Depot) and I was surprised to see that they only included a glow bulb, no capacitor.

Incandescents/Halogens :

I read some suggestions like using a dimmer for testing vintage/ancient incandescents lighting them up slowly and not at once - looks good to me

I use old 500W halogen floor-lamp dimmers that are very smooth and can accept 500W bulbs.

A lot of manufacturers now make those transparent-blue starters, i sen a lot of them but they all have polyester capacitor (the standard clear plastic one). Some of them may be not available there

Philips
Solex
Or Lite
Hyundai
Nepton
Tesco

What brand are the ones you seen and what shape of glow lamp in them ?