Author Topic: UK DIY stores  (Read 3824 times)
sparkie
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UK DIY stores « on: June 30, 2007, 10:35:15 AM » Author: sparkie
I notice from posts on this forum and other sites, that HID bulbs and fittings are commonly sold in home-improvement stores ('Lowes', 'Home Depot' etc.) in the USA, along with a wide range of fluorescent fittings and tubes.

However, in the UK, none of our stores sell HID lamps (with the exception of B&Q's HPS lamp). Furthermore, the range of fluorescent tubes is very poor, with stores such as Homebase and Focus selling only their own-brand halophosphate white tubes. B&Q is slightly better, since it sells GE Polylux warmwhites also.
The stores devote 95% of their lighting depts. to incandescent/halogen lights.

It's really annoying, that given such a wide range of lamps available (particularly T8 triphosphor and the new generation T5 tubes), these stores sell only basic whites >:(.

For anything other than a 70w HPS or plain white FLT, the only places to obtain lamps are electrical wholesalers (which sell tubes in packs of 25), or mail order companies such as RS or CPC.

If US stores can sell these things, why not UK stores ???
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Re: UK DIY stores « Reply #1 on: July 01, 2007, 03:53:28 AM » Author: Silverliner
Man the selection of lamps in the DIY stores in the UK sounds so boring, just like checking out bulbs sold in supermarkets here which generally sells only incandescents with a few CFLs and halogens. However I heard that in Europe they are somewhat paranoid of the health issues from the chemicals found in the HID lamps so their sale is generally restricted through wholesalers. In the USA there is a free market so even corner hardware stores sell a small selection of merc, MH and HPS lamps. And not to mention a large variety of fluorescent lamps. I don't see why there should be a problem in Europe cuz I have never heard of big issues with such lamps being available to the public here.
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Re: UK DIY stores « Reply #2 on: July 01, 2007, 06:32:05 AM » Author: sparkie
I heard that in Europe they are somewhat paranoid of the health issues from the chemicals found in the HID lamps so their sale is generally restricted through wholesalers.

I think this is probably the reason! As part of the EU, we live under a 'nanny state' which treats us as if we are stupid idiots who need protecting against all possible sources of injury by enforcing h&s rules which just get more ridiculous.

Mostly, these relate to warning us about dangers that are obvious - such as insisting on putting 'DANGER - WET FLOOR!!' signs around the edge of swimming pools, and 'CAUTION - STEPS!' on the entrance to stairwells in some council buildings.

Packaging of products also falls under the rules: In a DIY store I saw a product with packaging that read: '58 watt fluorescent fitting complete with tube - CAUTION! This product contains GLASS, handle with care to avoid personal injury'.

It is quite possible that they recommend against general sale of anything with poisonous chemicals inside (such as HID bulbs), in case non - lighting / electrical people mistake them for fruit and try to eat them ::), although they still allow dentists to fill our teeth with mercury :o

I wonder how long it will be before we have signs in outdoor public places telling us not to look directly at that 'giant lightbulb' in the sky - to stop us blinding ourselves??!
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Re: UK DIY stores « Reply #3 on: July 04, 2007, 03:08:18 PM » Author: Santaarnpaal
In the Netherlands the same for DIY storesbut the chemicals are not the reason but there is no market for those lamps. Most of the gardens here in NL are to small for HID lamps.

Some DIY stores can order those lamps for you at request.
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Re: UK DIY stores « Reply #4 on: September 29, 2012, 12:32:02 PM » Author: AngryHorse
Totally agree with this, I WON`T entertain DIY stores here for lighting, and B+Q are just two bit rip off merchants!
UK DIY is ok for paint, wallpaper screws, nuts and bolts and the likes, but all my electrical stuff I buy in is wholesale all the way ;)
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Re: UK DIY stores « Reply #5 on: September 29, 2012, 01:00:53 PM » Author: f36t8
The situation is similar here (Sweden). It is very rare to see HID lamps in hardware stores (I have only ever seen 125 watt MV and some PRC metal halides offered for sale here at a large chain store). You have to order them from special suppliers (and usually at a much higher cost than other countries, I have found). Most supermarkets that sell fluorescent lamps (including CFLs) only ever sell one color (2700 K - yuk!), altough most hardware stores sell more colors.

HID ballasts (and ignitors) are very difficult to find here (but fluorescent ballasts are easy enough to get). The only exceptions are 250 - 600 W HPS and MH ballast sold for indoor plant growing. Most of my HID gear were bought from other countries (UK and Germany) or salvaged from old lighting equipment.
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Re: UK DIY stores « Reply #6 on: September 29, 2012, 06:27:42 PM » Author: Ash
I am from Israel and its much same as what i read about EU/UK :

It actually tells the story when you see it in table :

00 06 11 12 : years, notice incanescent ban came in effect 1.1.12
diy - small hardware store
ace - Ace, Home Center and the like

E - exist allways
U - usually
S - sometimes
R - rare
NOS - if found only NOS
                     | 00-diy | 00-ace | 06-diy | 06-ace | 11-diy | 11-ace | 12-diy | 12-ace
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Inc 25-60 clear      | E      | E      | E      | E      | E      | E      | E      | E     
Inc 25-60 frosted    | U      | E      | U      | E      | S      | S      | S      | S     
Inc 75-100 c         | E      | E      | E      | E      | E      | E      | NOS    |       
Inc 75-100 f         | U      | E      | U      | E      | S      | S      | NOS    |       
Inc 150-200 c        | U      | S      | U      | S      | NOS    |        |        |       
Inc candle 25-60 c   | E      | E      | E      | E      | E      | E      | E      | E     
Inc candle 25-60 f   | E      | E      | E      | E      | E      | E      | E      | E     
Inc K mushroom       | S      | E      | S      | E      | S      |        | R      |       
Inc flame/odd stuff  | R      | S      | R      | E      | R      |        | R      |       
Inc PAR for cans     | S      | E      | S      | E      |        |        |        |       
Inc PAR38 color      | U      | E      | U      | E      | S      |        | NOS    |       
Inc <=15W E14        | E      | E      | E      | E      |        | S      |        | S     
Ralina               |        | S      |        | S      |        |        |        |       
FL T12 20/40 765     | E      | S      | NOS    |        |        |        |        |       
FL T8 18/36 765      | E      | E      | E      | E      | E      | E      | E      | E     
FL T8 18/36 640      |        | S      |        | S      |        | S      |        | S     
FL T8 18/36 8xx      |        | R      |        | R      |        | S      |        | S     
FL T8 18/36 BL       |        | S      |        | S      |        | R      |        | R     
FL T8 18/36 BLB      | S      | E      | S      | E      | R      | R      | R      | R     
FL T8 15/30/58 any   |        | S      |        | S      |        | R      |        | R     
FL T5 4-6-8 765      | S      | E      | S      | E      | S      | S      | S      | S     
FL T5 4-6-8 BL       |        | S      |        | S      |        | R      |        | R     
FL T5 new any        |        |        |        | S      | S      | E      | S      | E     
FL TR9 22/32/40 765  | E      | E      | E      | E      | U      | U      | U      | U     
FL TR5 any           |        |        |        | R      |        | S      |        | S     
PL-S/D any           | S      | E      | S      | E      | S      | U      | S      | U     
PL-L any             |        | U      |        | U      |        | U      |        | U     
CFL normal haloph    | S      |        | S      |        |        |        |        |       
CFL normal triph     |        | U      | S      | E      | E      | E      | E      | E     
CFL high watt any    |        |        | R      | R      | S      | S      | S      | S     
Halo 12V 20-50W      | E      | E      | E      | E      | E      | E      | E      | E     
Halo lin 150-1000W   | E      | E      | E      | E      | S      | S      | NOS    |       
Halo 12V reflector   |        | E      | S      | E      | S      | E      | S      | E     
Halo 240V G/GUxx     |        |        |        | E      |        | E      |        |       
Halo-in-GLS any      |        |        |        |        |        | U      |        | U     
LED G/GUxx           |        |        |        | S      |        | U      |        | U     
SBMV HWL 160W        | U      | E      | U      | NOS    |        |        |        |       
MH 150W 2end         |        |        |        |        |        |        | R      | R     
MH 400W E40          |        |        |        |        |        |        | R      | R     


And this is the story in text :

The small hardware stores used to have most of what you need, and if its not there you go to Ace etc. Slow changes like T12 disappearing

Then in the mid 2000s new lighting boom started (CFLs, G/GUxx 240V halogens....), Ace etc were the ones to first market it, small hardware stores were not too fast to catch on. The big CFLs kill the SBMV

Then in the late 2000s as we progress the Ace etc are getting boring but the new lamp types are available, while little changes in the hardware stores (though some stuff is less and less available ie frost incandescents etc)

Then in 2012 everything with filament >60W disappears - in Ace etc overnight (they removed it from the shelfes), in hardware stores as people slowly buy it. However MH is beginning to show up (still randomly and unreliably) sometimes as some people bought MH floodlights after the halogen ban

This is one half of the story

In village areas etc there are often more specialised hardware stores which stock more stuff usefull for farms etc. This is where you go to get HIDs etc

There you also see the other differences - if in the city hardware store you can find sprinklers for no much more than the average stuff for a front garden grass, then in the village areas you can find more advanced stuff of irrigation too and so on

I think the lack of HID in stores is not as much about the nanny issues (the only likely way to die from a MH without electricity involved is to cut veins) but that people dont have fixtures for HID and dont use HID. Here too HID is "for the pro's" and most folks dont use it. Its the rural area folks who appreciate it more for obvious reasons
« Last Edit: September 29, 2012, 06:32:29 PM by Ash » Logged
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Re: UK DIY stores « Reply #7 on: September 30, 2012, 02:34:31 AM » Author: dor123
Ash: Linear halogen lamps are still allowed, as I still see them up to 1500W in Israeli websites, such as in Katzenstein Adler's Electra Lighing PDF catalog and Illumina website (Warining: Operates on IE only).
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Re: UK DIY stores « Reply #8 on: September 30, 2012, 03:42:24 AM » Author: Ash
Perhaps NOS or special application
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Re: UK DIY stores « Reply #9 on: September 30, 2012, 03:33:57 PM » Author: AngryHorse
Very interesting table there Ash, even things like your 160watt SBMVL, listed as E + U, were never sold in DIY stores here.
What I love about the US though is, even when the 175watt MV NEMAs were in full time use for street lighting, the hardweare stores sold a household version in kit form for the consumer to use on their own yards.

That would never happen in the UK, even now! >:(
« Last Edit: September 30, 2012, 03:35:29 PM by LinearSLI/H » Logged

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Re: UK DIY stores « Reply #10 on: September 30, 2012, 04:59:34 PM » Author: Medved
I have the impression, than the HID's are not offered so frequently here, because there is no need for such powerful lamps running for long hours in regular households.

One aspect: Europe is quite dense populated, so people usually do not own larger yards, where HID would fit, mostly regular 1000..2000lm packages are good enough, but such packages are too low to make much sense as HID's. And to walk to the front door from the street, the spill from the public lighting provided enough light to see the path to the light switch on the house.

And another aspect: Electricity in Europe is (and always was) more expensive than in US, so people could not afford to spend it to run some lamps for whole night, they turn them ON only for the time actually needed. So this asked for lamps with immediate runup, so HID's are out of business.

And another aspect: Due to their life, nor HID's, nor fluorescents need frequent replacements, so there is no need to have them as readily available as it is for incandescents and/or CFL's.

In recent decade the availability of PIR controlled lights make the need for all night running lights to really disappear...

I'm not aware of any explicit restriction on HID's here (the more specialized resalers sell them without any problems), the only reason seems to be the "natural" offer/demand...
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