Re: Philips Lighting Bath « Reply #1 on: December 08, 2012, 01:34:14 AM » Author: DetroitTwoStroke
I haven't been impressed with the quality of modern ('90s to present) Philips HPS or MH bulbs, but I liked having a USA made product readily available. Philips seems to be concentrating on cost too much, and they are making and selling garbage now. I bet production will shift to China.
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	Re: Philips Lighting Bath « Reply #2 on: December 08, 2012, 02:30:22 AM » Author: dor123
This factory is the one that manufactured the Ceramalux range of HPS lamps. Ceramalux is originally a brand of Westinghouse, not of Philips, so there is a risk, that closing the Westinghouse HID factory, will cause the entrie Ceramalux brand to be discontinued, and the US Philips, will just start to sell in the US, local version of the european SON and Master SON PIA/APIA HPS range, from China.
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	Re: Philips Lighting Bath « Reply #3 on: December 08, 2012, 02:31:31 AM » Author: Silverliner
Terrible news indeed. The reason is because Philips is gradually getting out of the traditional lamp business to focus on LEDs. They plan to shift to a 100% LED based production line, largely making integrated fixtures. @dor123 they already stopped making HPS last year in the USA, they are now made at a Philips plant in China.
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	Re: Philips Lighting Bath « Reply #4 on: December 09, 2012, 05:57:57 AM » Author: dor123
Quote from: Silverliner on December 08, 2012, 02:31:31 AM Terrible news indeed. The reason is because Philips is gradually getting out of the traditional lamp business to focus on LEDs. They plan to shift to a 100% LED based production line, largely making integrated fixtures. How do you know that Philips (The american company or the international one?) planning to completely exit the lamp business and focus only on LEDs (LEDs aren't lamps in general sense, and a "LED light bulb" is no more than a complete lighting fixture with LEDs and a driver, that have a light bulb appearance and screws into light bulb sockets), so it will be actually will become from a lamp manufactuer to a LED manufacturer? This is way shocking to heard!
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	Re: Philips Lighting Bath « Reply #6 on: December 09, 2012, 12:56:10 PM » Author: dor123
The fact that Philips says that HID is an inefficient and especially OUTDATED (Meaning obsolete) technology, is an example of a planned obsolescence of the HID lamps by Philips, and a way to promote the consumerism in lighting. HID and fluorescents will remain the most efficient and reliable lightsource of the market. LEDs can't reach more than 60 lm/w outside the laboratory and all of the LED screwing packages (Lamps. LEDs aren't considered lamps or light bulbs, and a LED "lamp" is nothing but a package consists of LEDs, driver and lamp base [This is actually an entrie lighting fixture], that have a lamp or light bulb appearance and screws into a lamp socket) that claims themselves to have more than 60 lm/w, 80% more efficient than incandescents or have the same lifspan as dedicated low power LEDs had in the 80s, are (...) and lies. The LED still converts most of its electricity to a convection heat rather than light, comparing to even T12 daylight halophosphosr fluorescent lamps. And I and dave said earlier that Philips was the source that led to the bulb, ballast, tube ban.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2012, 02:13:50 PM by dor123 »		Logged

I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.

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I lives in Israel, which is a 220-240V, 50hz country.

	Re: Philips Lighting Bath « Reply #7 on: December 09, 2012, 06:58:46 PM » Author: Silverliner
Actually there is a reason why there is so much research ongoing with LED technology. It generates light in a completely different way, it simply converts electrical current directly into light, heat is a secondary process. In incandescent and gas discharge lamps light is given off as a secondary process, either from heating a filament or causing a chemical reaction with elements such as mercury, sodium, and various halide compounds. So the traditional lighting technologies, as much as we love them, are phyiscally incapable of reaching the potiential of LEDs, because if you take out the heat, there would be no light lol. Even the most efficient discharge lamp, the SOX, is only about 30% efficient (sure it is 200 lumens per watt, but the efficiency limit for monochromatic yellow light is probably over 600 lumens per watt). The Philips L-prize LED lamp, the one assembled in Wisconsin, is already 90 lumens per watt and it is not even a lab prototype. Sure we can continue to enjoy traditional lighting technologies as our hobbies, but we have to face the fact they may gradually go away in general use over the next 20 years.
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	Re: Philips Lighting Bath « Reply #8 on: December 10, 2012, 06:57:11 AM » Author: dor123
Why there are no links that proven the evidence that Philips plans to stop to produces light bulbs and will produces LEDs only?
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	Re: Philips Lighting Bath « Reply #11 on: December 10, 2012, 02:24:56 PM » Author: Medved
@monkeyface: Nobody would tell anything like "We stopped developing our product" in front of a potential customer, even when that would be the case for already long time... The truth is, than with the advancements of the LED's together with their "sexiness" in most customer's eye it is harder to back up any significant investments into anything older and "less sexy", mainly in these times... Compare to traditional sources, the LED's do not need as high output packages to be able to reach reasonable performance. And their manufacturing cost have very high chance top drop significantly while still keeping rather high margin for the makers - that is huge contrast to traditional sources of the same efficacy (these require very high temperature processing,...). The semiconductor processing is more complex, but it allow very huge savings in large scale manufacturing - the price drop to few cents per 1W (80lm) chip, when subtracting all the margins (assume few 1000$ per 12" wafer, what yield about 70000 pieces of 1W chips; at least an order of magnitude lower than e.g. 400W MH burners), what with the current selling prices is the main driving force for all manufacturers to redirect all the available investment money to the LED - to catch as much as possible from the still super high margin pool... Once the margins drop to today's level of the "traditional" sources (fluorescents, MH,...), I would guess no other technology would be able to compete at all...
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	Re: Philips Lighting Bath « Reply #13 on: December 11, 2012, 05:46:35 AM » Author: dor123
There are several shops in Israel, that lit totally by LEDs and have no any lamp. Cinemall mall in Haifa, which was once illuminated by 36W T8 magnetic fluorescents (The parking lot floors), PLs and compact MHs (The mall itself), are now illuminated totally by LEDs. The 36W T8 battens in the parking lot floors have retrofitted by LED tubes , which all of them, either burned out or dimmed out few months later. All of the PL and MH recessed downlighters in the mall itself (Which were relatively new), have all been replaced by LEDs . Here is a picture of an ice cream shop, that lit totally by LEDs, and have no even one lamp.
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I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.

I only working with the international date format (dd.mm.yyyy).

I lives in Israel, which is a 220-240V, 50hz country.

	Re: Philips Lighting Bath « Reply #14 on: December 11, 2012, 03:00:15 PM » Author: Medved
Quote from: monkeyface on December 10, 2012, 05:15:12 PM @Medved; thats the very sad way it goes! I think moving to LED's in this way is an evolution. When no government bans would be involved, you can not say anything against. I think LED's did not need any government bans, mainly when they have the potential to be really cheap. I think the bans were targeted mainly to allow the companies to grab the insane margins on very infant technology we see now happening with LED's. I think, without the bans it would be really only a matter of relatively short time to have the incandescent performing the role candles and kerosene lamps only play today: Quite expensive nostalgic decoration and maybe some really special uses... The main problem for the future is, than this technology is concentrated practically ONLY in China. That would hurt a lot. But that problem is way wider than only about light sources...
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