Author Topic: Electronic 250w HPS ballast in commercial-grade fixture???  (Read 7656 times)
BlueHalide
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Electronic 250w HPS ballast in commercial-grade fixture??? « on: October 24, 2012, 12:29:41 AM » Author: BlueHalide
Ok, Ive never seen anything like this before, today I was at my father's office to look at some HPS parking lot floodlights the company was replacing with new MH fixtures. I was able to get 3 of the old fixtures after they were taken down. All three are 250w HPS (lithonia brand floodlight) upon opening up the fixtures to see what brand ballasts and lamps were inside I notice one fixture was suprising lightweight. After opening it I found an ELECTRONIC ballast?! (pic below) The other two fixtures contained the typical core and coil (Advance brand) HPS ballasts. The electronic ballast sticker reads;
                                      HID Electronic Ballast
                                      250w HPS or CDM lamp
                                      120v 60Hz
                                      Line current; 2.35A max.
                                      Power factor; 90% Min
                                      Mounting distance; 33 ft. max.
                                      Type 1 Outdoor
                                      Max. Output voltage; 920v pk
No brand or manufacturer info at all
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BlueHalide
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Re: Electronic 250w HPS ballast in commercial-grade fixture??? « Reply #1 on: October 24, 2012, 12:35:46 AM » Author: BlueHalide
Anybody have any idea who makes these? One interesting thing was this ballast only measures 227w when operating after 40 min on a Kill-A Watt. (lamp looks underdriven too) The lamp is a Sylvania 250w HPS that has been operating on this ballast. Also the ballast makes no "clicking" ignitor sound during a hot restrike. And produces no high frequency ringing noise either in operation, its totally silent. Just found a date sticker which reads (10/06). Picture above is the cover plate removed from ballast
very unusual
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Re: Electronic 250w HPS ballast in commercial-grade fixture??? « Reply #2 on: October 24, 2012, 12:48:57 AM » Author: Alights
no idea but CDM is a certain metal halide lamp

also welcome to Lighting Gallery 8)
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BlueHalide
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Re: Electronic 250w HPS ballast in commercial-grade fixture??? « Reply #3 on: October 24, 2012, 12:56:29 AM » Author: BlueHalide
Thanks Alights

CDM I believe is ceramic metal halide.
Interesting thing is no electrical or lighting supply company in the area sells electronic HID ballasts over 70w. Ive seen high-wattage electronic ballasts like this before in indoor gardening and hydroponic use but never in an industrial outdoor flood. Im going back in a couple days to see if I can get any more fixtures  ;)
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dor123
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Re: Electronic 250w HPS ballast in commercial-grade fixture??? « Reply #4 on: October 24, 2012, 02:50:59 AM » Author: dor123
At >250W, magnetic ballasts have lower losses than electronic ballasts.
If this ballast have lower wattage for the lamp, probably it underdrives this lamp, resulting in a poorer lamp performance and shorter life.
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I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.

I only working with the international date format (dd.mm.yyyy).

I lives in Israel, which is a 220-240V, 50hz country.

Ash
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Re: Electronic 250w HPS ballast in commercial-grade fixture??? « Reply #5 on: October 24, 2012, 11:11:08 AM » Author: Ash
Looks interesting. Any pics of the complete circuit board ?
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Alights
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Re: Electronic 250w HPS ballast in commercial-grade fixture??? « Reply #6 on: October 24, 2012, 11:41:00 AM » Author: Alights
Does underpowered HPS have a shorter life? I.have seen a few streetlights that have had bad capacitors.for years and they don't cycle..lamp.is just a dim yellow.LPS color
The sodium would probably diffuse slower through the arc tube when underpowered. .i know overpowered HPS will have a short life and usually leak or cycle early
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dor123
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Re: Electronic 250w HPS ballast in commercial-grade fixture??? « Reply #7 on: October 24, 2012, 12:49:13 PM » Author: dor123
When an HID lamp is underpowered, its electrodes may operate at temperatures below the thermionic emission, resulting in a cold cathode operation and heavy sputtering, shorting the lamp life.
Underdriven HPS lamps can't be cycle, because at its operating temperature, it would be able to instant hot restrike.
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I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.

I only working with the international date format (dd.mm.yyyy).

I lives in Israel, which is a 220-240V, 50hz country.

Medved
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Re: Electronic 250w HPS ballast in commercial-grade fixture??? « Reply #8 on: October 24, 2012, 02:15:38 PM » Author: Medved
European HPS are officiallz rated for operation down to 305 of the rated power, so ~210W on a 250W lamp should be OK.

But I would rather guess the ballast use some sort of active arctube temperature control, what tend to reduce the delivered power as the arctube age and darken.

The electronic could be made so it is able to identify the lamp type, so it could then operate multiple lamp types or even wattages (so both HPS and MH, as in US they differ) even when they have different electrical spec. The only thing the lamp should have the same is the voltage range for the ignition pulse (as the ballast have to ignite the lamp before it could identify it)
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BlueHalide
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Re: Electronic 250w HPS ballast in commercial-grade fixture??? « Reply #9 on: October 24, 2012, 03:25:16 PM » Author: BlueHalide
Heres a better closeup of the PCB, what is the component attached to the ballast case with leads? Transistor maybe?
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BlueHalide
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Re: Electronic 250w HPS ballast in commercial-grade fixture??? « Reply #10 on: October 24, 2012, 03:31:42 PM » Author: BlueHalide
Heres a pic of the other end, note the mosfets with heatsinks...interesting. Also, standard 250w quartz metal halide lamps dont work too well on this ballast, they flicker, the arc swirls around and is unstable.
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Medved
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Re: Electronic 250w HPS ballast in commercial-grade fixture??? « Reply #11 on: October 24, 2012, 03:48:21 PM » Author: Medved
Heres a better closeup of the PCB, what is the component attached to the ballast case with leads? Transistor maybe?

The thing with longer wires is the input rectifier (4 diodes in a bridge rectifier configuration, all encapsulated in one common package)


And based on the only few components there and the swirling you describe, I have the impression, than it is only a simple HF inverter (similar to fluorescent ballasts, only a bit scaled up), so no extra intelligence...

If that is the case, I won't use there the MH's, as the swirling arc, touching the arc tube wall could locally overheat the quartz there.
With HPS it does not pose as much problems, as the arc is running way cooler, so the PCA could handle it's heat pretty well, even when it touches it.

The MH's operate at way higher arc temperature, so I won't be so sure even with the ceramic arc tubes...


The intelligeht ballasts I was writing about have at least four transistors (the hypothetical minimum with power regulator combined with polarity chopper, no PFC; never seen such type), but most likely you would see 5 transistors (one is in an active PFC, four in the bridge configutration for combined power regulation and polarity chopping), the most complex one have six of them (1x in PFC, 1x in power regulation, 4x in polarity chopper).

All of them contain the input rectification and filtering, mostly with an active power factor correction (but that is not needed for the main ballasting function, but it make it easier in upstream power distribution and because it can quite precisely stabilize the DC output, it make the downstream power regulation simpler in the control part)

Following is the buck regulator DCDC stage, responsible for converting the DC intermediate voltage from the rectifier to the voltage required by the arc, while controlling the power delivered to the arc. The control circuit monitor the arc voltage and current and adjust the delivered power. It makes a basic, or more advanced diagnostic on the parameters, mainly in order to recognize lamp faults and eventually identify the lamp type and so adjust the power parameters accordingly (in multiwatt MH ballasts).
And then follow the bridge circuit, what swap the lamp polarity each few ms, in order to prevent electrolysis effects.

The last two functions are sometimes integrated into one H-bridge stage, what regulate the power alternatively in both branches. The advantage is (obviously) simpler and cheaper ballast, the disadvantage is worse trade-off between resulting arc current ripple long polarity swap dead time, so the current crest factor is not really unity. And because of the required trade-off, it does not allow to serve multiple wattages with a common HW.
When separate circuits are used for each part, quite a good filter could be placed between the power conversion and the polarity chopper, so the polarity swap gap could be really small (1us and below), while the filter could be made slow, so provide very low ripple. Such arrangement is capable to serve power ranges more than 1:4 with a common hardware, so it is only matter of control SW configuration to reconfigure the setup for different lamp wattages, eventually the SW could identify the lamp wattage, so the user only insert the wanted lamp type and the ballast drive it correctly. These are usually offered as "35-70-150W" units for store displays, where the display designer could swap the lamp wattages according the actual arrangement need, without worrying about configuring the ballast box...
« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 04:26:51 PM by Medved » Logged

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BlueHalide
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Re: Electronic 250w HPS ballast in commercial-grade fixture??? « Reply #12 on: October 24, 2012, 07:46:22 PM » Author: BlueHalide
Thanks for the info Medved
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marcopete87
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Re: Electronic 250w HPS ballast in commercial-grade fixture??? « Reply #13 on: October 25, 2012, 07:54:25 AM » Author: marcopete87
is there any schematics about this circuit?
i'm planning to build an 4x250w or 2x400W tower for emergency light and keep it as light as possible.
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Medved
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Re: Electronic 250w HPS ballast in commercial-grade fixture??? « Reply #14 on: October 25, 2012, 08:08:40 AM » Author: Medved
is there any schematics about this circuit?
i'm planning to build an 4x250w or 2x400W tower for emergency light and keep it as light as possible.

I would rather use remote magnetic ballasts and place them into the base of the tower and on the top keep only the ballast-less lanterns.
The electronic are a bit lighter, but the simple ones (high frequency) are quite problematic for the lamps, while the more complex low frequency are quite complex to build and the usable designs require to write firmware for the controller. And all the electronic are quite sensitive for external overvoltages and/or lamp failures (it is not so trivial to debug them so they become reasonably robust)...
« Last Edit: October 25, 2012, 08:12:24 AM by Medved » Logged

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