imj
Guest
|
| I have an older Philips MHN-TD of 70w and the ignitor I used is a newly bought BAG TURGI super-imposed ignitor. Problem with this lamp is slow ignition it takes some seconds to ignite after switch on. I thought maybe the lamp is old but same thing happened with a new Philips lamp I bought. So it isn't the lamp but the ignitor could light those E27 MH lamps with no delay...what could be wrong? BTW it was lighted in a halogen flood and the wiring was tight and the holder is tight as far as I can tell.
|
|
|
« Last Edit: April 30, 2012, 06:57:45 AM by imj »
|
Logged
|
|
dor123
Member
Offline
Gender: 
View
Posts
View Gallery
Other loves are printers/scanners/copiers, A/Cs
|
| If your Bag Turgi ignitor have hard time to ignite MH lamps, probably it is weak and need to be replaced.
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.
I only working with the international date format (dd.mm.yyyy).
I lives in Israel, which is a 220-240V, 50hz country.
|
Ash
Member
Offline
View
Posts
View Gallery
|
| What is the ignitor spike voltage ?
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
imj
Guest
|
What is the ignitor spike voltage ?
It's stated at 4 - 5 KV but I suspect it's much lower than that since the ignitor range is from 35w to 400w HID lamps. The 4 - 5KV is when it's at it's maximum current I guess so maybe a HQI-E may get away with igniting but not a DE lamp having higher breakdown voltage. I don't rememebr having such problems with a 70 to 100w ignitor but I do have a 'lazy' ignitor by Vossloh for lamps up to 400w. That one already had difficulty igniting a 70w HQI-E but OK with MH lamps greater than that wattage. But all this is just based on assumption. |
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
imj
Guest
|
If your Bag Turgi ignitor have hard time to ignite MH lamps, probably it is weak and need to be replaced.
It was bought a few months ago and seldom used since I use mainly MVs and HPS with internal ignitor. |
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
dor123
Member
Offline
Gender:
View
Posts
View Gallery
Other loves are printers/scanners/copiers, A/Cs
|
| Probably your ignitor is for HPS lamps (If HPS lamps needs lower voltage to ignite than MH lamps).
The Eltam ES50 clicking semi-parallel ignitor, designed for HPS lamps, but can ignite MH as well, but most lamps that hot restrike from it in Israel, have very long hot restrike period (In addition with operating with the wrong ballast type).
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.
I only working with the international date format (dd.mm.yyyy).
I lives in Israel, which is a 220-240V, 50hz country.
|
Ash
Member
Offline
View
Posts
View Gallery
|
| Superimposed ignitors have way lower output power than semiparallel ignitors. This means, that losses in the wire between the ignitor and the lamp will affect its starting more severely than with semiparallel ignitor
So - Is there long wire between ignitor and lamp ? Is there something that may be "loading" the ignitor - such as isolation breakdown parallel to the lamp somewhere ? (too thin isolation wires or terminals, too close contacts in the lamp socket etc)
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
imj
Guest
|
| The wires are 3 core flexible power cable those used for power strips. The length of the cable is normal as it runs from the ignitor to the halogen fitting on the same table I rememeber Medved stating about lower ballast current would cause the output ignition voltage to drop also.
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
imj
Guest
|
| I bought a new ignitor..same thing. Buzzing but nothingfor some seconds then it sputters to life. BUT when I tried again...this time with the arctube in the vertical position..it lights immediately. So it's the gas in the horizontal position that makes starting difficult.
|
|
|
« Last Edit: April 27, 2012, 07:37:11 AM by imj »
|
Logged
|
|
Ash
Member
Offline
View
Posts
View Gallery
|
| I dont think that is what matters
It can be the drop of mercury location in the arctube that helps the striking by being in the path for the arc
And it can be that there is weak spot in the cable isolation between the wires (which is breaking down and lowering the ignitor voltage) that moved (so the wires dont touch there anymore) when you moved the lamp
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
imj
Guest
|
You are probably right...Now it starts on it's own instantly even horizontal both new and old lamp  . Fortunately the ignitor cost me 9 dollars only because I think it could be the lamp holder. I am planning to buy a MH downlight for the new lamp so maybe it would not have this problem then since it would be using a proper holder for MH not halogen. |
|
|
« Last Edit: April 27, 2012, 11:01:54 AM by imj »
|
Logged
|
|
imj
Guest
|
|
BG101
Member
Offline
Gender:
View
Posts
View Gallery
EYE H80 Mercury Vapour
|
I hope I did not damage the ignitor since I'm not sure if it was a dead short or not. But would it be damaged since it is super-imposed series type. I remember there was no sound of sparking when the lamp fail to ignite only when the lamp ignited there was sparking sound that seem to some from the ballast Huh? Huh?. Highly unlikely to be a short, it's more likely to be a bad contact, the prime suspect would be the side contact in the lamp holder itself. This shouldn't damage the ignitor, however a short across the ballast would destroy the ignitor and the lamp. BG |
|
|
|
Logged
|
Say NO to DICTATORSHIP in the form of bulb/tube/ballast bans !!
|
Medved
Member
Offline
Gender:
View
Posts
View Gallery
|
| I think a hard-short (= the circuit breaker or fuse trip) across the ballast would not destroy the ignitor, it uses quite thick wire on the secondary and there is nothing else in the current path than this wire.
And with resistive shorts (only across section of the winding, e.g. between two layers) I guess the ballast would sooner erupt into flames than the ignitor would fail...
However the lamp would be most likely dead after such incident.
In any case I would rather suspect bad contact somewhere - the lamp socket is indeed a prominent candidate...
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
No more selfballasted c***
|
