I have some Advance L-140F-TP preheat ballasts (low power factor, I think) with which I intend to run European style 36 watt T8 lamps. Using these ballasts, with an FS-4 starter would work, I think. The ballast can run F40T12, F30T12, F30T8, FC12T9, FC16T9 and CFS28W/GR8 lamps. I know some of you have run 36WT8 lamps successfully in North America, while others have tried with limited or no success. Should I use a different starter or should the FS4 be fine ? Do GE Polylux lamps work better than Osram or Philips ? I always had good success with GE lamps in general.

It will be relatively easy to source the lamps as 1000bulbs.com has some, and my local supplier might as well.

Thanks !

The starter should be rated for F40T12 (trigger voltage ~200V; I do not know the FSx nomenclature).
Ballast should be of lag type, with >200V OCV  (lead or resistive are problematic, or need way higher OCV).
With the two above met, I think it would work well...

It would not work in F40T12 RS ballast, as it require higher voltge for ignition.

F32T8 ballasts would underdrive the F36T8 lamps (0.32 iso 0.43A) and the lower arc voltage may overheat the ballast (depend on it's characteristic), so better do not try it. Moreover i'm not sure about the ignition characteristic - the voltage may still be insufficient...

You can have 240V out of the dryer socket etc. I think it will work with Euro 36W 240V 50HZ ballasts but have somewhat lower current due to 50 vs 60HZ

I have been running some 36 watt T8 tubes in one of my vintage 3 x 40 preheat/switchstart fixtures with no problem. I got the tubes from member kevxsi16v and I have been using toem with FS4 starters. The 36 watt T8s are direct replacements for 40 watt T12s. European magnetic stitchstart ballasts operate fine on US 240v 60hz.

Thanks for the info. I just measured the OCV and it is 200V. Since Medved mentions that a >200V OCV is required, would this be just at the limit, giving sporadic starts ?

If you want to experiment, make a voltage divider to slightly reduce the voltage you give to the light

A voltage divider is a resistive circuit with resistors of appropriate power (so they won't burn out), that you can "pick" the wanted voltages out of mid-points in it

Heating elements and incandescent lamps are pure resistive loads, so they won't interfere (or "boost") the ballast, and will give quite accurate results

J1 and J2 - 200V input

J3 and J4 - less than 200V output

Since you want to drop the voltage just a little bit, jeep R1 and R2 low resistance (large heating elements) and R3 and R4 high resistance (low wattage lightbulbs)

Use close resistance for R1=R2 and R3=R4, so that you don't give more than 120V to an 120V load. If you have 240V heating element or lightbulb, you can substitute it for R1+R2 or R3+R4 respectively, since it won't have a problem to get full 200V so you dont need 2 in series

Use heating elements as complete appliance (e.g electric kettle full of water) to prevent overheating in case they get full 200V (across two) for some reason

Thank you for your input. I am planning to make a permanent installation using 36T8 lamps if possible. Using European ballasts is out of the question since I would have to wire a 240V circuit, and without correct North American certification on the ballast, I doubt it would pass code. I will, however, keep setups like Dieselnut and Ash presented in mind and might experiment with that sometime in the future.

Later this fall, when I have the time, I will get lamps and start trying what works and what doesn't work with the ballasts I already have.

and without correct North American certification on the ballast, I doubt it would pass code

Do you have intrusions into your home at 2AM by the OSHA or something, who take apart your light fixtures and look at the ballasts ?

I think retrofitting T8s on T12 preheat magnetic ballasts, should be of no problem in the US.
The reason for the problem of retrofitting T8s on T12 ballasts in the US, is because the majority of F40T12 ballast there, are HPF rapidstarts, which can't start them.

Quote from: sol on July 27, 2011, 04:58:53 PM

and without correct North American certification on the ballast, I doubt it would pass code

Do you have intrusions into your home at 2AM by the OSHA or something, who take apart your light fixtures and look at the ballasts ?

I guess no, but insurance companies frequently ask for electrical inspections and the inspector would look there. And if you would wan money from them in case of some disaster, they will send the inspector for sure an if he find a noncompliance, the company would reduce the payment or pay nothing at all, because one of basic contract condition is the requirement for the owner to keep everything inline with related Codes...

The 36 watt T8 tubes run fine on USA preheat/switchstart gear and using a FS4 starter. They are a direct replacement for F40T12s. As for the ballasts, those European ballasts are every bit as good as the USA magnetic ballasts. I certainly trust them more than the electronic chinese junk so often sold here now! If you are worried, install a pair of 5 amp fuses in the mains coming into the ballast. The very nice fixture I got from kevxsi16v will be in use for my upcoming party in my shop, running those beautiful RED THORN 65 watt 5 foot T12 tubes!

I have no doubt about the reliability of European ballasts. In fact, I share DieselNut's opinion about them. However, for a permanent, hardwired installation, I prefer to obey the code, should problems arise and an inspection take place, like Medved stated. I might try to get European chokes, though, but for temporary installations (plug in). I have 240V supply into my house, and could wire a 240 receptacle should the need arise. There are a lot of aspects of the European electrical system that I like very much and would like to see here in Canada, but it is outside the scope of this post.

On a side note, I believe that Canadian electrical codes prohibit any lighting circuit above 120 V for permanent installations in houses. In commercial buildings, however, lighting is commonly installed at 347 V.

Then maybe you can install an approved 240V socket in a handy location, and plug the light fixture in "permanently". Use a 240V switch (if you have appropriate 2-pole switch) or a 120V-powered 2-pole relay controlled by standard 120V switch

I found the Narva 36 watt T8's to work fine in my ancient preheater. But I had some OLD NOS reset starters and that didn't do well. Even on 40 watters it would light the ends immediately and pulse about 5 or 6 times before lighting. It took almost to reset for the 36 watters to light. The new cheapo starters work fine, the F40 on one side always instant starts, and the 36 watters start within 1 or 2 blinks.  I have not tried the 32 watters again, to test for ballast heating but they light on this fixture with the new cheapo starters.

Powell

Are the old starters air thermal ? If yes then try to clean the switch contacts

Try to put a capacitor (from modern starter) across the switch