New data show how quickly light pollution is obscuring the night sky « on: February 15, 2023, 01:58:52 PM » Author: rjluna2
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	Re: New data show how quickly light pollution is obscuring the night sky « Reply #1 on: February 15, 2023, 08:38:19 PM » Author: wide-lite 1000
I personally don't understand why everything needs to be lit with 10 zillion lumens of light !  A gas station near me has 48 400w MH canopy lights !! That's over to 1.9 MILLION lumens of light...For a gas station canopy !!  WHY  ? The restaurant across the street has 6- 1,000w MH shoeboxes in an area about 150' x 150' ! That's about a 1/2 million lumens !  Then factor in up lighting on buildings , up lighting on billboards All of this just isn't nessesary !   Gas station :  https://goo.gl/maps/dtRHGnvcdT3LnXnk9  Restauraunt : https://goo.gl/maps/ZGgt2N8xa747aQpA8  If they really want to reduce light pollution  , use down lights on billboards and reduce the amount of lumens used in lighting parking lots and building facades ! The gas station would be lit perfectly fine with about 1/3 of the lights . The restaurant lot needs 1/2 of the lights it has . This isn't a new problem either , it's been happening here for decades ! Back in the mid 90's a store was built nearby in Hilliard Oh. and the parking lot was lit by 12 - 3 fixture poles each being 1,000w HPS . PLUS, around the perimeter of the lot was another 12 single 1,000w HPS fixture poles !  This lot was decent sized but not huge . 6.7 million Lumens was WAY overkill for that lot ! It's since been LED'd at about 1/2 the lumens and it STILL too bright !
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	Re: New data show how quickly light pollution is obscuring the night sky « Reply #3 on: February 15, 2023, 11:56:45 PM » Author: Medved
Orange light pollution is still a light pollution. LPS may solve the problem for astronomers (looking at stars using instruments), but not for people or nature. Yes, ir seems to be less problematic, but I'm afraid the major reason is not that much the less of scattering, but the not really optimal definition of candela/lumen, in terms of the distribution of relative sensitivity over the spectrum (defined to follow the eye characteristics for high level of lighting, not accounting for the increased relative sensitivity for blue end of the spectrum at low levels). So once the sodium brightness would be increased to match the brightness of used MH/LED at the low levels, the pollution would become comparable. Really there is crazy inflation of illumination: Brighter streets made the commercial installations appear to "not stand out" and attract customers that much, so commercial districts shifted for stronger lights. Brighter commercial districts made the streets feel dimmer and "less safe", so municipalities boosted up the light levels anytime a new technology or energy costs offered to do so. Rinse and repeat, for the whole last century.
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	Re: New data show how quickly light pollution is obscuring the night sky « Reply #4 on: February 17, 2023, 08:58:45 PM » Author: xmaslightguy
Where I'm at, if I look north at night, you can pretty much say "what are stars, we don't have those here" ...
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	Re: New data show how quickly light pollution is obscuring the night sky « Reply #5 on: February 18, 2023, 12:20:04 PM » Author: wide-lite 1000
Regardless of the light source , a zillion lumens of light is still un necessary ! As Medved said , everything is gettting brighter and brighter . Look at streetlighting 100 yrs. ago compared to now .
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	Re: New data show how quickly light pollution is obscuring the night sky « Reply #6 on: February 19, 2023, 08:03:10 AM » Author: AngryHorse
Agreed, night is night, hypothetically if you got rid of all artificial light at night, it would be black, and you can do interesting experiment’s in the pitch black! Even the tiny 15 watt Pygmy lamp in a pitch black setting will provide a surprising amount of light to its surroundings, and although not on the level of cats, humans eyesight is pretty good in a dimly lit area with just a minimal amount of light such as a Pygmy!  I’ve been over lighting my own house in the past, but gradually reducing the lighting inside and out you get use to a level of light over time. I actually prefer lower levels of light in the house now than I would have done 10 years ago!
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	Re: New data show how quickly light pollution is obscuring the night sky « Reply #7 on: February 19, 2023, 11:39:06 AM » Author: dor123
Modern lanterns uses cutoff optics, and this still don't reduces the light pollution, due to the reflection of the light from the ground.
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Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.

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	Re: New data show how quickly light pollution is obscuring the night sky « Reply #8 on: February 19, 2023, 12:03:09 PM » Author: dor123
I'm demonstrating why full cutoff optic won't reduce light pollution in street lighting (In this case with the SMD LED floodlight of my hostel, but this demonstration is relevant to full cutoff lanterns as well). You can see that despite the SMD LED floodlight pointing down, lots of light from the ground is reflected back into the nearby house of Stainberg 16. Closeup: https://i.postimg.cc/zvFwdKKQ/IMG-5821.jpg
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I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.

I only working with the international date format (dd.mm.yyyy).

I lives in Israel, which is a 220-240V, 50hz country.

	Re: New data show how quickly light pollution is obscuring the night sky « Reply #9 on: February 19, 2023, 12:34:59 PM » Author: AngryHorse
The photo is an excellent example though of a light that still doesn’t need to be this bright!, even though the position is correct, the lumen output is still too high for this area.
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	Re: New data show how quickly light pollution is obscuring the night sky « Reply #10 on: February 19, 2023, 12:44:41 PM » Author: dor123
This SMD LED floodlight is very small, so it is strange that it produces this amount of light. Also, it is installed low on the wall.
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I"m don't speak English well, and rely on online translating to write in this site.
Please forgive me if my choice of my words looks like offensive, while that isn't my intention.

I only working with the international date format (dd.mm.yyyy).

I lives in Israel, which is a 220-240V, 50hz country.

	Re: New data show how quickly light pollution is obscuring the night sky « Reply #11 on: February 19, 2023, 01:31:00 PM » Author: AngryHorse
I’m guessing way overrun diodes?, it makes them look good for sale? I dropped my coach lanterns in the garden down from LED of 1521 lumens at 13 watts to 450 lumens at 4 watts. There was a definite notable difference at first, but now I’m use to it it’s just enough light for where they are.
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Current: UK 230V, 50Hz
Power provider: e.on energy
Street lighting in our town: Philips UniStreet LED (gen 1)
Longest serving LED in service at home, (hour count): Energetic mini clear globe: 57,746 hrs @ 15/12/24

Welcome to OBLIVION

	Re: New data show how quickly light pollution is obscuring the night sky « Reply #12 on: February 20, 2023, 12:05:30 AM » Author: Medved
Quote from: dor123 on February 19, 2023, 11:39:06 AM Modern lanterns uses cutoff optics, and this still don't reduces the light pollution, due to the reflection of the light from the ground. It does not eliminate it, but it does reduce it significantly. But of course, only if the illumination stays the same. But the "stays the same" is the problem here: What often happens, the old lights are getting replaced by way more power FCO. Then obviously the higher intensity means there is more light reflected from the ground than before even with the added direct upwards light leak of the old fixture... Part of the problem is, the fixtures are often used outside of their illumination area specs, so e.g. a fixture with 100 m reach (at a given installation point) is used to illuminate things 150m away. And when there is not enough light, they just boost the power, instead of using different optics or better reworking the installation (two well placed 2000lm fixtures then do way better job than a single 14000lm one).
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	Re: New data show how quickly light pollution is obscuring the night sky « Reply #13 on: March 18, 2023, 11:42:23 AM » Author: HomeBrewLamps
The real solution is a portable microwave cannon... FRY ALL THE LIGHTS!
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	Re: New data show how quickly light pollution is obscuring the night sky « Reply #14 on: March 19, 2023, 01:11:17 PM » Author: rjluna2
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