Author Topic: The right way and the wrong way  (Read 3395 times)
sox35
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The right way and the wrong way « on: March 21, 2021, 03:44:42 PM » Author: sox35
As an electrician of 18 years I have noticed a constant and disturbing trend here of wiring various components together for experimental purposes for mismatched HID lamps and ballasts.
While I certainly won't mention names and sometimes such experiments can be fun and interesting.
But lets be realistic.
First off these experiments are not necessarily safe and are total violations as far as the electrical codes are concerned.
They can not be trusted for permanent installations.
Also none of these experimental lights would ever be wired this way in the field.
There's also a liability issue.
If a fire was ever traced to one of these so-called experiments you could easily be held responsible.
Electricians spend 4 years at the minimum learning how to properly install safe lighting.
If want to spend your days installing some amazing HID displays by all means take a course.
If you want to continue such risky experiments ideally they shouldn't be posted where someone could try one with disastrous consequences.
HID lamps and ballasts are coded for a reason. They are not intended to be mixed or altered.
Just remember
There are old electricians
And
There are bold electricians
But
There are NO OLD and BOLD electricians!
Well I've said my piece, like me or hate me I just felt that it's my job as an electrician to let everyone know that experimenting with HID lighting can be a dangerous hobby.
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Mandolin Girl
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Re: The right way and the wrong way « Reply #1 on: March 21, 2021, 04:03:07 PM » Author: Mandolin Girl
Agreed 100%. Let's keep safe here, folks  :-* :love:
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Mandolin Girl
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Re: The right way and the wrong way « Reply #2 on: March 21, 2021, 04:09:33 PM » Author: Mandolin Girl
That's just what I was saying, I don't have a professional qualification like you do, but like Ria I do have decades of experience round what is safe and what is not. :bulbman:
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Bulbman256
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Re: The right way and the wrong way « Reply #3 on: March 21, 2021, 05:00:58 PM » Author: Bulbman256
As Ria said, i agree! :love: 8)

While a few things i do are a little unsafe being 15 and wiring up lamps and stuff, i try to follow local code for safety, especially when I'm doing a permanent project. Going to try and get more knowledgeable when i become an electrician so i can do thing safe. :police:
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sox35
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Re: The right way and the wrong way « Reply #4 on: March 21, 2021, 05:03:08 PM » Author: sox35
All jokes aside Max, I'm sure you'll make a great electrician  :love:
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Bulbman256
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Re: The right way and the wrong way « Reply #5 on: March 21, 2021, 05:09:06 PM » Author: Bulbman256
All jokes aside Max, I'm sure you'll make a great electrician  :love:

 :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[

you made me blush there.

But thank you, i have already installed some undercabinet  lights and this summer I'm changing out a ceiling fan so I'm slowly getting into more complicated stuff. ;D
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Desultory13
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Re: The right way and the wrong way « Reply #6 on: March 21, 2021, 05:32:02 PM » Author: Desultory13
:-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[

you made me blush there.

But thank you, i have already installed some undercabinet  lights and this summer I'm changing out a ceiling fan so I'm slowly getting into more complicated stuff. ;D
With ceiling fans always make sure to use a fan rated box and that it is securely mounted to the ceiling framing. Also if the fan has a light, don't mix up the wires. You don't want the light rotating and the fan not moving! :lol:
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joseph_125
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GoL
Re: The right way and the wrong way « Reply #7 on: March 21, 2021, 05:32:21 PM » Author: joseph_125
Agreed, while I do occasionally do some experimentation, and doing simple ballast substitutions that have been tested by multiple people on here. It's another thing to openly suggest to novice members to run a lamp using a combination of ballasts that you yourself haven't even tested yet. There's just too much that could go wrong, the novice member could miswire the circuit, they could mix ballasts with a different phase (ie HX with CWA), or the combination just could simply not work as you never tested it yourself.

Liability is another thing too, if something goes wrong, who ends up being liable when something happens. I agree people should take responsibly and not just blindly follow advice on here sometimes but it still puts the site in a bad light if something were to happen.
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Mandolin Girl
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Re: The right way and the wrong way « Reply #8 on: March 21, 2021, 05:36:27 PM » Author: Mandolin Girl
Agreed, while I do occasionally do some experimentation, and doing simple ballast substitutions that have been tested by multiple people on here. It's another thing to openly suggest to novice members to run a lamp using a combination of ballasts that you yourself haven't even tested yet. There's just too much that could go wrong, the novice member could miswire the circuit, they could mix ballasts with a different phase (ie HX with CWA), or the combination just could simply not work as you never tested it yourself.

Liability is another thing too, if something goes wrong, who ends up being liable when something happens. I agree people should take responsibly and not just blindly follow advice on here sometimes but it still puts the site in a bad light if something were to happen.

Which is precisely the point I was trying desperately to make.
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Desultory13
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Re: The right way and the wrong way « Reply #9 on: March 21, 2021, 06:10:20 PM » Author: Desultory13
Electrical code / regulations, call it what you want is mostly common sense...  :wndr:
Sadly common sense isn't that common, so we need to have it written down and follow it.!
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Desultory13
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Re: The right way and the wrong way « Reply #10 on: March 21, 2021, 06:47:47 PM » Author: Desultory13
I'm just saying this one more time.
I see absolutely no logic in mismatching electrical components for so-called experiments.
The codes are there for a reason to protect life and property.
They are written from years of experience and those who earn an honest living in this trade trying to adhere to these regulations should not have to spend their valuable time having to fix substandard installations just because people feel that they are unecessary.
I've spent years learning to make sure that I'm doing quality work and providing safe installations for my customers and because the codes change every 3 years I'm always learning, trying to stay on top of the changes.
Equipment is engineered for specific uses and there is no reason to defeat it's purpose by engaging in so-called experiments.
I'm sorry to hear that LG allows possible unsafe setups to be posted.
I just don't understand why is it so difficult to use the proper lamps and gear for which they are designed.
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Bulbman256
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Re: The right way and the wrong way « Reply #11 on: March 21, 2021, 07:08:44 PM » Author: Bulbman256
With ceiling fans always make sure to use a fan rated box and that it is securely mounted to the ceiling framing. Also if the fan has a light, don't mix up the wires. You don't want the light rotating and the fan not moving! :lol:

There is a fan already there, my great grandpa installed the thing 30 years ago and the light kit died a few months back. I remember seeing a spare one in the garage but am not sure, will have to ache I if I can just swap it.

Having the blades glow could be an interesting idea.... :mrg: :lol:
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Mandolin Girl
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Re: The right way and the wrong way « Reply #12 on: March 21, 2021, 07:16:14 PM » Author: Mandolin Girl
...I just don't understand why is it so difficult to use the proper lamps and gear for which they are designed.
Nor can we, which is why we invested in a 400W US spec inverter so we could run US lamps on US ballasts which we imported.  :btclrbnder:
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desktoptrashcan
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Re: The right way and the wrong way « Reply #13 on: March 21, 2021, 07:19:25 PM » Author: desktoptrashcan
I just don't understand why is it so difficult to use the proper lamps and gear for which they are designed.

Sometimes the correct gear is no longer available (e.g., 200W SLI/H), so a suitable substitute must be used.
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sox35
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Re: The right way and the wrong way « Reply #14 on: March 21, 2021, 07:23:11 PM » Author: sox35
Sometimes the correct gear is no longer available (e.g., 200W SLI/H), so a suitable substitute must be used.
There are always exceptions to any rule. But they are rare, and when such substitutions are made, all efforts must be taken to ensure no-one is at any risk. If there is the slightest doubt, don't do it, even if it means not lighting that rare lamp. In any case, you wouldn't want to destroy a lamp you'd waited years to acquire and may never find again, would you..?
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