Does anyone consider LED changeovers to be pointless? « on: November 28, 2020, 02:23:57 PM » Author: WorldwideHIDCollectorUSA
Personally, I consider many LED changeovers to be pointless because sometimes, the new LED lights have a lower luminous efficacy than the light source that they replace. I see this thing where a 300w LED fixture is said to be equivalent to a 1000w MH fixture and the results that I see are that the light levels get dropped to a fraction of the previous light levels since the 1000w MH lamp emits about 110,000 lumens while the LED fixture only emits 40,000 lumens. As a consequence, the areas with those new LED fixtures will be poorly lighted. I also seem to observe this with LED retrofit lamps for SOX low pressure sodium lamps. Initially, a 180w SOX lamp would emit 32,000 lumens while the equivalent 100w LED retrofit lamp would only emit about 15,472 lumens. When looking at the changeover from 1000w MH to LED, I only notice that the fixture efficacy increases only by 23 lumens per watt while from changing over from SOX to LED, the fixture efficacy DROPS by roughly 23 lumens per watt. Some governments around the world may use the energy savings as a reason to ban HID lighting because they will only look at the wattage savings and not the luminaire efficacy and ban HID lighting because they say that the older HID lighting did not meet any energy standards.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2020, 02:35:59 PM by WorldwideHIDCollectorUSA »		Logged

Desire to collect various light bulbs (especially HID), control gear, and fixtures from around the world.

DISCLAIMER: THE EXPERIMENTS THAT I CONDUCT INVOLVING UNUSUAL LAMP/BALLAST COMBINATIONS SHOULD NOT BE ATTEMPTED UNLESS YOU HAVE THE PROPER KNOWLEDGE. I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INJURIES.

	Re: Does anyone consider LED changeovers to be pointless? « Reply #1 on: November 28, 2020, 03:06:19 PM » Author: AngryHorse
Forget the lumens with LED, that’s all invalid now, for instance, I could put an 11,000 lumen, 95 watt LED low bay UFO next to a 250 watt, 19,000 lumen metal halide low bay, and the UFO will blow it out of the water! This is simply down to the way the diodes light an area, (straight down concentrated light)!, where as the light from the halides discharge tube is bounced all around the inside of the low bay, there’s no direct aim, no matter how good the reflector is engineered. I’ve certainly had my eyes opened since using LED low bay UFO fittings for the first time at work!, as bad as it is to admit, they make HID low bays look so inferior now!
« Last Edit: November 29, 2020, 12:50:37 AM by AngryHorse »		Logged

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	Re: Does anyone consider LED changeovers to be pointless? « Reply #2 on: November 28, 2020, 04:01:07 PM » Author: CreeRSW207
Not favoring LED here but I don't see them being pointless since they consume less energy and have a much better CRI than HPS. The lower lumens are focused onto one area instead of spread out like HID making them appear brighter.
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Long live the Incandescent streetlights!
Power Company: Eversource
Startup Landscaping/LED retrofit business.

	Re: Does anyone consider LED changeovers to be pointless? « Reply #3 on: November 29, 2020, 03:33:51 AM » Author: AngryHorse
Industrial HID low bays suffer another problem too, dust and dirt ingress, in the UK metal halide versions have to have a glass cover, ( in case of lamp explosion ), but because their not 100% sealed, dust in an industrial application is drawn in there by the lamps own heat, and quite quickly too!, (easily within a year), So it makes no difference if it’s got the best made CMH lamp in, as the light is totally defused by this.....
« Last Edit: November 29, 2020, 03:44:52 AM by AngryHorse »		Logged

Current: UK 230V, 50Hz
Power provider: e.on energy
Street lighting in our town: Philips UniStreet LED (gen 1)
Longest serving LED in service at home, (hour count): Energetic mini clear globe: 56,654 hrs @ 14/9/24

Welcome to OBLIVION

	Re: Does anyone consider LED changeovers to be pointless? « Reply #4 on: November 29, 2020, 09:46:05 AM » Author: Cole D.
Not pointless, but what I don't like is here they use low wattage AEL ATBX fixtures. They look ok, but they are super, super dim. Not an improvement over the GE HPS fixtures they replaced.
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Collect vintage incandescent and fluorescent fixtures. Also like HID lighting and streetlights.

	Re: Does anyone consider LED changeovers to be pointless? « Reply #5 on: November 29, 2020, 02:10:30 PM » Author: WorldwideHIDCollectorUSA
Quote from: CreeRSW207 on November 28, 2020, 04:01:07 PM Not favoring LED here but I don't see them being pointless since they consume less energy and have a much better CRI than HPS. The lower lumens are focused onto one area instead of spread out like HID making them appear brighter. So are light levels actually increased by using the optical design?
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Desire to collect various light bulbs (especially HID), control gear, and fixtures from around the world.

DISCLAIMER: THE EXPERIMENTS THAT I CONDUCT INVOLVING UNUSUAL LAMP/BALLAST COMBINATIONS SHOULD NOT BE ATTEMPTED UNLESS YOU HAVE THE PROPER KNOWLEDGE. I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INJURIES.

	Re: Does anyone consider LED changeovers to be pointless? « Reply #6 on: November 30, 2020, 08:45:31 PM » Author: CreeRSW207
Quote from: Cole D. on November 29, 2020, 09:46:05 AM Not pointless, but what I don't like is here they use low wattage AEL ATBX fixtures. They look ok, but they are super, super dim. Not an improvement over the GE HPS fixtures they replaced. I find those pretty dim too, maybe that’s why York used 40w fixtures to replace some 50 and 70 watt HPS. Tho their LED conversion was odd in general!
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Long live the Incandescent streetlights!
Power Company: Eversource
Startup Landscaping/LED retrofit business.

	Re: Does anyone consider LED changeovers to be pointless? « Reply #7 on: November 30, 2020, 08:48:03 PM » Author: CreeRSW207
Quote from: WorldwideHIDCollectorUSA on November 29, 2020, 02:10:30 PM So are light levels actually increased by using the optical design? Basically what it is. It’s the lesser of two evils to convert since the HPS is evenly distributed but not as bright. The LEDs are not good a throwing their light in many places and just brightly light the ground beneath them.
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Long live the Incandescent streetlights!
Power Company: Eversource
Startup Landscaping/LED retrofit business.

	Re: Does anyone consider LED changeovers to be pointless? « Reply #8 on: January 12, 2021, 05:33:17 PM » Author: The Cooper OVX
No! They are not pointless because LED is proven by the manufacturers and studies that LED is better for the environment and more energy efficient than HID and other sources. LED focuses its light on the road while HID spits light out all over the place.
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Common HPS fixture in many cities. slowly being phased out.

	Re: Does anyone consider LED changeovers to be pointless? « Reply #9 on: January 12, 2021, 07:15:20 PM » Author: CreeRSW207
Quote from: The Cooper OVX on January 12, 2021, 05:33:17 PM No! They are not pointless because LED is proven by the manufacturers and studies that LED is better for the environment and more energy efficient than HID and other sources. LED focuses its light on the road while HID spits light out all over the place. LED lights the base of the pole and doesn’t spread around. It’s good for a small road but not a 4 lane highway.
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Long live the Incandescent streetlights!
Power Company: Eversource
Startup Landscaping/LED retrofit business.