WorldwideHIDCollectorUSA
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HID, LPS, and preheat fluorescents forever!!!!!!
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I am wondering whether any countries banned neon discharge tubes in favor of LED lighting since LED lighting is predicted to be found in more than 99.9% of all light fixtures in the world by 2030 due to laws banning HID lighting.
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Desire to collect various light bulbs (especially HID), control gear, and fixtures from around the world.
DISCLAIMER: THE EXPERIMENTS THAT I CONDUCT INVOLVING UNUSUAL LAMP/BALLAST COMBINATIONS SHOULD NOT BE ATTEMPTED UNLESS YOU HAVE THE PROPER KNOWLEDGE. I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INJURIES.
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tolivac
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Actually neon lights are very efficient.And LEDs CANNOT duplicate the colors in the same way.And LED lights that try to look like "neon" look so dumb and corny.And they will consume the same or even more power.
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Lumex120
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/X rated
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The only advantage LEDs have is that they require less skill to make signs with since they are usually encased in flexible silicone. (and they can be cheaper depending on application).
By the way, it wouldn't be a bad idea to put all these questions into one big post rather than making a new topic for each one.
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Unofficial LG Discord
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Mandolin Girl
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As Lumex has said it all comes down to the skill of the worker who makes the lamps. With very few people willing to learn the old skills, fewer signs are being made. But they are still produced in low numbers.
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xmaslightguy
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Somewhere There Is Light(ning)
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No countries that I know of, but there are cities/towns that have banned neon signs....not because of the mercury in them, or the fact that they're inefficient, instead because they're considered tacky/trashy/distracting/etc by some people.
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ThunderStorms/Lightning/Tornados are meant to be hunted down & watched...not hidden from in the basement!
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HPS_250
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Long live the HPS and SOX!
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If countries have banned neon tubes or signs, that’s just pointless. The art of neon may come to an end someday, but I hope that end is not forced by LED just like it has done to everything else. LED “neon” signs will never be able to compete, they’re just mass produced plastic tubes with colored lights inside. They will never look as good as neon can.
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I’ve always been interested in all kinds of lighting, mainly incandescent and HID, and especially all kinds of sodium lamps (HPS/LPS). I’ll tolerate LED but I’m not a fan of it. I’m not proud to say that my city has Devolved to LED.
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Medved
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Neons require high skill workmanship, which is VERY EXPENSIVE. Plus they require rather troublesome installation (HV, so isolation breakdowns, arcing,...; compare that to the convenience of the SELV for LEDs, easily allowing a lot of effects nearly for free, which are simply not even technically possible with tubes). The tubes alone may be a bit more efficient (and that is very doubtful; comparing to LED sripes, which already dissipate about 1/3 of the input power as heat from the ballasting resistors), but the HV power supplies had so low efficiency (20..30% are common), the LED systems consume way less power from the mains. So with the LEDs available, there is just no demand for the neons in the advertisement industry anymore. Just some novelty/art installations may use them, but that is extreme niche market compare to the ads, so practically no commercial shop survived.
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Binarix128
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220V AC 50Hz, NTSC
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Neon signs are not banned yet, but are practically all moved away because of the LEDs. An LED sign is much more times cheaper than neon, you just buy the flexible LED strip and shape it as your sign, and it will consume 10 or 20 watts. With neon signs you need to pay an artist to make your signs, and more complex shapes and mixed colors are way more expensive, so whoever want a glowing sign wouldn't resist the cheapness of the LED. The problem is, of course, that if you use LED signs you will need to change them every year because most LEDs are crappy. Most LEDs are insanely overloaded for get more light out of less LEDs, and for cut prices. Also the silicon, rubber or whatever plastic is used to cover the LEDs will degrade and become yellowish by the sun light and the LEDs themselves. With all that your extremely cheap LED sign will barely last a year with luck, while neon signs lasts for decades, just go to a city center with old infrastructure and you will see 40+ year old neon signs still going strong.
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Medved
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But ads and banners must be changed very often just because of marketing reasons. The neons were in use for that long not because their owners wouldn't like replacing the graphic way more often even "back then", but with the cost of neon signage it was jus out of economical reach. So from rhis perspective the LEDs suit that way better: Cheap to purchase, simple so cheap to install, the short life of such cheap signage construction is not a problem, because a new graphic would completely replace it way sooner anyway.
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Binarix128
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Medved, the signs that are changed frequently are the printed ones with a backlight, neon signs like "open", "bathroom" or "cinema" are meant for be there for years, and that's why LED "neon" signs are not reliable, because you will unnecessary need to change them once or two a year, when that kind of signs are meant for not to be changed regularly. Also they don't change their logos once a year, they keep the current one for many years, because making an attractive and selling logo is not cheap. Also, neon signs are more like plain text for indicate the service of such business or store, and that kind of sing is meant to be there practically forever, and that's why LED strips for signs are not reliable.
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joseph_125
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Agreed, a lot of neon signs such as OPEN, WASHROOM, and even the store name have been in service for decades before they get removed. I'd imagine some places would still be willing to spring for the higher costs of neon for the aesthetic over simulated LED neon. It's getting rarer but there are still some places here with their original 1950s and 1960s era neon signage still in use.
Aside from specialty installs the last uses of neon seem to be those channel letters used for store names. Those used neon tubes until LEDs made inroads into the signage industry. Ads here typically use backlit boxes where the graphics can be replaced independently of the light source or large billboards which were almost always front lit if you're talking about the static ones.
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Medved
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The fact the LED signage could be made in a cheap and simple way by far does not mean it should be everywhere. It is perfectly possible to make LEDs last that long too. But it needs a bit different style of construction than the cheapest one. And very rareky are these outdoors, exposed to elements. For instance not using the "wheather proofed" silicon covered tapes, but use the bare ones within properly covered enclosure, with e.g. sealed glass front and properly made vents (so the water can not go in, but may easily evaporate out),...
Plus even these usually wont last over the first remodelling, which uses to happen each 10 years. Yes, there are many older installations, but those are like the cheapest stinky motels falling apart because of their general overhaul being decades overdue (my observation from my US visits)... So replacing those signs with refreshed graphic is something like replacing the carpet or repainting walls.
And because of the reflective surface technologies (retroreflectors embedded in the paint/foil,...), many places where such neons were used wont need active illumination anymore either.
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