Author Topic: Most irritating lamp advice someone is given  (Read 1859 times)
WorldwideHIDCollectorUSA
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Worldwide HIDCollectorUSA
Most irritating lamp advice someone is given « on: November 08, 2020, 07:43:29 AM » Author: WorldwideHIDCollectorUSA
Has anyone been irritated when being given certain lamp advice such as being told to NEVER operate ANY European HID lamp in America because the lamp has NO ANSI code?
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Binarix128
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Re: Most irritating lamp advice someone is given « Reply #1 on: November 08, 2020, 08:35:22 AM » Author: Binarix128
Really nothing too different than a lighting ban... I think...
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Medved
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Re: Most irritating lamp advice someone is given « Reply #2 on: November 08, 2020, 10:44:33 AM » Author: Medved
The missing certification is a liability thing. If something bad happens involving the lamp in question, you are in trouble: Insurance refusing to pay, neigbors affected by that claiming damage must be paid by you. Legally wise you will be the one viewed as intentionally threatenning all around by unsafe installation. No one will question the technical background, but all will look only if your contraptions are code compliant or not and the light just wont be.
But if the same happens with a certified things involved (put together according to the code), all will go after "higher power".

Yes, it is crazy, but that is how lawers function. And it is the lawers (in the form of a judge, if taken to an extreme) will just operate this way.
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sox35
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Re: Most irritating lamp advice someone is given « Reply #3 on: November 08, 2020, 10:59:24 AM » Author: sox35
As I see it (and I admit I am not in the US and know little of how things work there) then this only applies if the lamp or whatever it is is hard-wired to building wiring. If it's an experiment or test rig that you've built and it's connected by a plug and socket, then I can't see a problem.
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Binarix128
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Re: Most irritating lamp advice someone is given « Reply #4 on: November 08, 2020, 11:02:17 AM » Author: Binarix128
The missing certification is a liability thing. If something bad happens involving the lamp in question, you are in trouble: Insurance refusing to pay, neigbors affected by that claiming damage must be paid by you. Legally wise you will be the one viewed as intentionally threatenning all around by unsafe installation. No one will question the technical background, but all will look only if your contraptions are code compliant or not and the light just wont be.
But if the same happens with a certified things involved (put together according to the code), all will go after "higher power".

Yes, it is crazy, but that is how lawers function. And it is the lawers (in the form of a judge, if taken to an extreme) will just operate this way.
At least here, nobody will care about how you install your electricity or lighting
 unless it is a rented house, apartment or set others house on fire, there's no monthly or annual inspections unless you contract that service. It is recommended that a certified person install the things in your house but if you do it yourself you will do it under your risk and nobody will care unless you damage others property or life. It sounds crazy, but that it is. I can perfectly run whatever lamp into whatever gear and nobody will give a frick unless you... as I said.
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xmaslightguy
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Re: Most irritating lamp advice someone is given « Reply #5 on: November 08, 2020, 11:11:23 AM » Author: xmaslightguy
Quote from: Binarix128
At least here, nobody will care about how you install your electricity or lighting ..
Simple fact is that here (atleast from my understanding), if you knowingly installed an unsafe lighting setup, and it caused a problem, insurance could infact deny your claim. Which means you'd have to foot the bill.

Now if it never caused an problem, nobody in the general public (except an inspector) is ever going to notice or care.
And a testing rig / experiment, that's not permanently installed, in particular nobody's going to care about. (but its also something that you wouldn't be planning to leave running unattended all day, day after day...)   
« Last Edit: November 08, 2020, 11:21:56 AM by xmaslightguy » Logged

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Ash
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Re: Most irritating lamp advice someone is given « Reply #6 on: November 08, 2020, 03:25:43 PM » Author: Ash
I think any advice to "upgrade to LED" when unjustified, checks the square pretty well (regarding the first post question)

Regarding incorrect ligting setups : If you install or maintain some lighting setup you are responsible for it. Generally, if you know what you are doing, the setup you make (with components not rated to work together) can be as safe as a similar factory made setup, and in many cases will be objectively safer than some things you can buy at a shop with all approvals (especially cheap and nasty stuff). However as mentioned above, the incompetent homeowner using cheap trash from the shop as-is is likely to have better liability protection than competent you if something happens

In my opinion, if you do some custom setup for your personal use, it's up to you and well within your capability to make it safe - safe enough to prevent any case that would raise liability concerns in the first place. This sums up largely to the luminaire being able to contain any faults without shooting flames and sparks out
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Medved
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Re: Most irritating lamp advice someone is given « Reply #7 on: November 08, 2020, 05:11:50 PM » Author: Medved
When an experiment or a demonstration is operated only under supervision of a qualified person, with additional safeguards in place (e.g. disconnect switch and fire extinguisher in reach of you) otherwise secured from any accidental unintended activation (unplugged from the power socket when not demonstrated), is likely OK.

A permanent installation to be used daily is not OK.
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sox35
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Re: Most irritating lamp advice someone is given « Reply #8 on: November 08, 2020, 07:20:20 PM » Author: sox35
This is just my opinion! As an electrician, I think it's best to just operate the proper lamps on the correct ballasts to avoid all the property damages, possible injuries or legal ramifications. By operating the proper equipment on the correct systems, you're getting the most out of your installations and avoiding the headaches. But it's just my opinion. :wndr:
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sox35
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Re: Most irritating lamp advice someone is given « Reply #9 on: November 09, 2020, 06:17:15 AM » Author: sox35
I agree. I'm a perfectionist and I'll make every effort to run lamps on the correct ballasts, even if that means getting a 120V 60Hz inverter and importing US wirefests  :laugh:

The only time I'll consider using the "wrong" ballast is if the correct one is genuinely impossible to get, in which case I'll use the nearest available current/voltage specification. But I won't run the lamp excessively on such a ballast, only occasionally to check it's ok.
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Binarix128
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Re: Most irritating lamp advice someone is given « Reply #10 on: November 09, 2020, 08:56:24 AM » Author: Binarix128
Because I don't have "special lamps", I'll only mind of getting a ballast that matches my lamps power. For example with my 70w HPS I'll search "70w HPS ballast" on whatever and I'll choose the best deal.
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Ash
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Re: Most irritating lamp advice someone is given « Reply #11 on: November 09, 2020, 03:12:30 PM » Author: Ash
The power matching can leave you with a ballast which is genuinely wrong for the lamp. (Not just "not rated for the lamp" but "really runs the lamp at the wrong current"), for a few factors :

1. Europe vs US ballasts for the same power but different current/voltage/load characteristic

2. MH lamps with inconsistent specs (different current ratings for MH lamps of the "same" power)

3. Sellers providing wrong descriptions....

4. Ballasts with the correct Voc and impedance, but incompatible with your ignitor

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