Author Topic: Project idea: Fan with internal motor-ballasted fluorescent lamp  (Read 3091 times)
themaritimegirl
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Project idea: Fan with internal motor-ballasted fluorescent lamp « on: June 08, 2014, 12:30:23 AM » Author: themaritimegirl
I couldn't get the title to make much sense, so hopefully the following explanation will.  :D

Today I tore apart an air purifier we've had forever that's going to the trash, and harvested the two-speed C-frame shaded-pole fan motor out of it. Nice little motor, I took it apart, cleaned and oiled it, and it runs absolutely silent. Can't be more than 1/50 HP.

I want to use it in something, and my original idea was a smallish box fan, no more than 12". But then I got an even more awesome (crazy?) idea - build the fan, but also include inside the fan cavity a fluorescent lamp that, with the flip of a switch, is connected in series with the motor, using the motor as a ballast, and powered on. This is a two-speed motor, too, so the lamp could run at two brightness settings.

The trick, of course, is finding the right lamp, or combination of lamps, such that they get the right amount of current on high speed (as long as they get the right current on high speed, I won't worry about them being too underdriven on low speed). The motor itself draws 0.23A on low speed and 0.85A on high speed. I spent a couple of hours trying various lamps, and I've concluded the following:

A single T5 gets way too much current. A single F14T12 gets 0.41A, probably not enough overdrive to hurt anything, but I always like to avoid overdrive if possible. An F15T12 gets 0.35A, still a slight overdrive. An F20T12 gets 0.28A, which I would be totally fine with, but such a lamp is far to large for this application (any T8 or T12 lamp is, really). Two F14T12 lamps in series get far too little current.

I found that two F6T5 lamps in series get 0.16A - perfect. (Although oddly enough, I got 0.20A a different time I tried it. I'll do more tests to see what I get for current.) However, preheat current is some 0.30A, far too high - I blackened my modern Sylvania lamp as a result. (I also used my generic 1960s F6T5 lamp, as I don't have any more expendable 6 watt lamps (will get another next time I'm at the surplus and salvage store), but luckily it didn't seem to sustain such damage.) I would stick a resistor in series with the starting switch to fix this. I found that current on the low speed in this setup is 0.08A - quite low (each lamp is doing only 3 watts), but as long as the lamps are started on high speed I wouldn't fear of sputtering.

There is one insolvable caveat, though - on low speed on this setup, the motor stalls - simply not enough current. Shaded pole motors are completely mechanically resistant to damage from stalling, but they do need active cooling. However, perhaps the current is so low that not enough heat will build up to damage the motor. I will run some tests and see. I could possibly set it up such that both lamps run on high, but only one lamp runs on low - thus the motor sees enough voltage to continue running, and the lamp would still get an acceptable amount of current. But that's probably asking for more complication than I'm willing to go for.  :D

As a last resort, if the above-mentioned setup doesn't work, I could use a single lamp of the desired size, and simply insert an appropriate resistor in series with everything when the lamp is powered on. All-in-all, though, the dual-F6T5 setup sounds promising. The only thing I need to figure out is the fan blades. The air purifier used a squirrel-cage fan, which is no good for what I want to do. Grainger appears to have some blade sets that may work; only thing is the motor has a keyed shaft, while those blade sets have a perfectly circular bore. I'll keep looking.

Trent
« Last Edit: June 08, 2014, 12:43:09 AM by TheMaritimeMan » Logged

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sol
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Re: Project idea: Fan with internal motor-ballasted fluorescent lamp « Reply #1 on: June 08, 2014, 06:33:56 AM » Author: sol
Nice project ! Have you considered trying a 2-pin PL lamp ? If it works, it would avoid the hassle of a starter.
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Re: Project idea: Fan with internal motor-ballasted fluorescent lamp « Reply #2 on: June 08, 2014, 01:34:08 PM » Author: themaritimegirl
Thanks! PL lamps could work. The problem is preheat current would presumably be too high, and there would be no way to tone it down. And if I needed or decided to use two in series, there's no telling whether or not starting would be reliable. (I've yet to test that concept at all since I don't have a second starter... should grab one next time I'm at Canadian Tire.)

I've also thought of using a 20 or 22 watt circline lamp. Only thing is I would have to position it in front of the fan, and it would probably be too small for the fan blade size I want to use, and restrict airflow. So it seems like linear lamps are the way to go. I wonder if maybe the North American F10T8 would work...
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Re: Project idea: Fan with internal motor-ballasted fluorescent lamp « Reply #3 on: June 09, 2014, 11:41:09 PM » Author: Alights
Interesting, I wonder if you could do a small incandescent in series to lower the jolt when the fluorescent starts
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Re: Project idea: Fan with internal motor-ballasted fluorescent lamp « Reply #4 on: June 10, 2014, 12:01:40 AM » Author: themaritimegirl
That would work; same idea as the resistor. Of course, it would only be active while preheating, so you might as well use a resistor since that can be placed more inconspicuously.

Speaking of which, I've done more tests with the dual F6T5 setup, and it seems lamp current varies between 0.16A and 0.20A, depending purely on what order the lamps are wired in.  ::) So I might or might not insert a resistor to tone that down (if I actually build this, anyway  :D). I'd only need a small 5 watt unit. I've found that the motor has no problem sitting stalled with the lamps running on low mode. Current is only 0.08A, so not enough heat builds up to do anything.

I've found that Fasco makes fan blades with a D-shaped bore, so I might look into them more.
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Re: Project idea: Fan with internal motor-ballasted fluorescent lamp « Reply #5 on: June 24, 2014, 03:42:08 PM » Author: DieselNut
I have thought of this idea several times, using a bathroom "fart fan", which has a motor similar to yours. On another "experiment" I tried, a F15T8 tube was perfect.
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Re: Project idea: Fan with internal motor-ballasted fluorescent lamp « Reply #6 on: June 24, 2014, 04:31:52 PM » Author: themaritimegirl
Imagine a bathroom light/fan combo with that sort of setup. That would be sweet!
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