Author Topic: Ban on new HID street lights inevitable?  (Read 10592 times)
toomanybulbs
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Re: Ban on new HID street lights inevitable? « Reply #15 on: June 21, 2012, 07:11:44 AM » Author: toomanybulbs
dont forget that phillips is phillips-lumileds.
makers of luxeon star,rebel,altilon.
looks like another dupont.
get a better product banned so you can sell something inferior you make.
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funkybulb
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Re: Ban on new HID street lights inevitable? « Reply #16 on: June 21, 2012, 11:35:09 AM » Author: funkybulb
Just great >:( how are we going to enjoy lighting what we love in the future. no more MV, HPS, SOX, or those metal halide. each light source have there own application. and beside they want us to push the US like the EU on second teir wave of the ban.
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Silverliner
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Re: Ban on new HID street lights inevitable? « Reply #17 on: June 21, 2012, 08:10:19 PM » Author: Silverliner
Don't LEDs have lumen depreciation problems? There's always the claim some can even be better than fluorescents, but the LEDs installed in LA in 2009 already show signs of lumen depreciation and color shift. And these are BetaLED fixtures, supposedly one of the best LED fixtutes.

EYE Lighting now makes ceramic metal halide lamps with an impressive 95% lumen depreciation. But a lamp lasting 20 years or more is already here and has been for decades. It provides very good lumen maintenance when made correctly. And it has a color appearance good enough for street lighting and outdoor security lighting to be accepted by the public. That one is called "mercury vapor" and the Westinghouse Lifeguard lamp meets all of the above specs including high lumen maintenance.

Are super efficient lamps new? No! In 1908 two professors at Columbia University developed a carbon silicon filament lamp called the Helion and the filament could be heated high enough to melt the lead wires and/or even destroy the outer glass! It was said to be 45 times more efficient than ordinary carbon filament lamps and that is 150 lumens per watt. It's just that todays engineers are not as smart as those of yesteryear and they can't properly engineer an ideal technology today.
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Re: Ban on new HID street lights inevitable? « Reply #18 on: June 22, 2012, 08:37:03 AM » Author: Ash
LED Lm deprecation is accelerated with the power to them. If you underpower the LEDs, they will last up to the 50K/100K lifetime and not have significan output deprecation, but it appears that in none of the LED lamps the LEDs are underpowered

The mercury lamp is one of the best light sources out there. It is not very efficient in Lm/W, but hey, count in maintenance, spot replacement costs, reliability, and you get damn good lamp. Besides, its eficiency is in the same order of magnitude as other light sources - so if you run on hydro / wind / solar power and dont count CO2, then mercury lamps ARE one of the greenest available. Thats besides magnetic fluorescent (again, litttle less efficient but way more consistent performance), HPS and SOX

They are not as smart ? Well i'd say interesting point. Today, many academic institutions are not at all about thinking, but about sorting and passing exams. It is possible that with the amount of smart people ouyt there being fairly constant, less and less of them are becoming engineers. This is very convenient for the industry giants : They get fresh work power from the academy, one that can do all the differential equations for them, but not competent enough to argue with the boss
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IOT_1928
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Re: Ban on new HID street lights inevitable? « Reply #19 on: June 22, 2012, 04:49:14 PM » Author: IOT_1928
Tired of anti-capitalist politicians and senseless environmentalists...
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Ash
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Re: Ban on new HID street lights inevitable? « Reply #20 on: June 22, 2012, 05:41:48 PM » Author: Ash
Remind you, the ones in charge this time ARE capitalists, namely Philips

Its not about anti-capitalist politicians, its about politicians bending to the capitalists and to the greenies and to their friends in the EU all alike, without thinking themselfes
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Silverliner
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Re: Ban on new HID street lights inevitable? « Reply #21 on: June 22, 2012, 08:08:32 PM » Author: Silverliner
This article might shock you guys, Gerard Philips was related to Karl Marx through marriage. Ironic that Philips Lighting is pushing for (...) bans on lamp technologies.

 http://www.nndb.com/people/105/000205487/
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dor123
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Re: Ban on new HID street lights inevitable? « Reply #22 on: June 23, 2012, 01:39:05 AM » Author: dor123
I don't understand how Philips can affect the governments of the world so much.
This is the greatest consumer misleading in the world, after the Samsung LCD TVs ad for 2008, which turned the word "LED" from a name of a semiconductor diode, to a synonym of an LCD screen (Especially the ones that uses LEDs for backlighting).
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Re: Ban on new HID street lights inevitable? « Reply #23 on: September 16, 2018, 07:45:28 PM » Author: lightinglover8902
WHAT?!?!?! They're banning HID fixtures from AEL, GE, and other HID fixture manufactures, by the future? I'm definitely getting an HID streetlight, when they replace it with an LED!
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Re: Ban on new HID street lights inevitable? « Reply #24 on: September 16, 2018, 07:49:51 PM » Author: wattMaster
It looks like it may have not gone anywhere because it said no new fixtures by 2015, but that was 3 years ago and there have been many HID fixtures made since then. I also haven't heard of any fixture bans at all other than this one.
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Cole D.
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Re: Ban on new HID street lights inevitable? « Reply #25 on: September 16, 2018, 08:33:58 PM » Author: Cole D.
This is why I'm more conservative and want the government to stay out of things like this. There are certain things they need to be involved in but free market trade such as this is not one of them, and Philips only would do this for their own gain, and it's rather shady if you ask me, for a company to try to dictate an entire market to get more money in their favor.
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Collect vintage incandescent and fluorescent fixtures. Also like HID lighting and streetlights.

WorldwideHIDCollectorUSA
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HID, LPS, and preheat fluorescents forever!!!!!!


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Re: Ban on new HID street lights inevitable? « Reply #26 on: June 23, 2024, 07:34:37 PM » Author: WorldwideHIDCollectorUSA
With the way things are going at right now, I think Cooper Lighting and ISB Sola Basic are the only manufacturer of HID street lights for the North American market as of now. I think most North American manufacturers discontinued HID fixture production altogether.
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Re: Ban on new HID street lights inevitable? « Reply #27 on: July 17, 2024, 08:03:09 AM » Author: veso266
at least a fixture can last a lifetime, you buy one you like once and thats it (if needed you replace ballast in it, which is fortionatly possible to do, since ballast have standard shapes to them)

the problem is if you want another one or want to use HID for whatever reason, you can't just go in the store and get the one you like

For instance, I am looking for this kind of LPS fixture: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YGT9Zgd_HQ for EU (220V) for years now, but sadly noone ever throws one in the trash, didn't even to see any operated on a post office or parking garage sadly
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Laurens
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Re: Ban on new HID street lights inevitable? « Reply #28 on: July 17, 2024, 12:15:43 PM » Author: Laurens
In Europe, there is no outright ban on HID on a european level. Countries themselves are free to decide as they want.

However, there are mercury-related and efficiency-related regulations.
If it's meeting efficiency criteria AND is mercury free, it's completely legal to produce and install in most places here. There is a sliding scale - 50w lamps need to reach 70 or 75lm/w, increasing in efficiency required as power consumption goes up.
So i reckon that some mercury free SONs will remain available for as long as there is professional demand for them, on the condition that they meet the efficiency criterium. With new installations being 99,9% led, demand for the mercury free SON lamps will likely dwindle quite quickly. I just bought two 50w Philips SON ones with mercury from 2022 Belgium production. I do want some mercury free ones to see how they compare.
Same probably goes for MH lamps. I don't know if mercury free ones are available.

The predictions from the people in 2012 when this thread was started, that LEDs will overtake HID efficiency wise, have come true. The only traditional lighting tech that can surpass the average LED, are the biggest SOX-E lamps.
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Richmond2000
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Re: Ban on new HID street lights inevitable? « Reply #29 on: July 30, 2024, 03:27:11 AM » Author: Richmond2000
funny how well the 2012 comments "aged"
lots of half hearted bans and mostly "the market" made the transition and like the CFL generation before there are some GOOD LED lamps and lots of absolute rubbish
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