71   General / General Discussion / Re: Unintentional Fluorescent Tube Cannon  on: January 17, 2026, 07:18:34 PM 
Started by Multisubject - Last post by Ash
And mosquitoes, unless you add more ingredients in the potion
 72   General / General Discussion / Re: More Lamp Calculations Stuff  on: January 17, 2026, 07:17:03 PM 
Started by Multisubject - Last post by Ash
Considering the amount of new factors you open up to, experimental results may well have higher precision than theoretical ones (lacking data and equations for many of those factors)

Use automated data logging, whether with "official" instruments connected to a computer, or with something hacked by yourself on a microcontroller. Let it capture entire curves of warm up of lamps at high resolution
 73   General / General Discussion / Re: Definition of HID Lamps  on: January 17, 2026, 07:08:34 PM 
Started by Multisubject - Last post by Ash
Incandescence of the electrodes is only a side effect, the main light (including lots of UV in all spectrum ranges) is indeed from the arc. if it would be the main mechanism of light emission... well there is already another lamp doing just that



Well....

"The term 'medium voltage' is commonly used for distribution systems with voltages above 1 kV and generally applied up to and including 52 kV(1) and 69 kV(2)" (Schneider Electric)
(i.e. High voltage is above Medium voltage)
(1) IEV 601-01-28
(2) ANSI C84.1 (and here the Low voltage limit is 2.4kV, not the more or less commonly accepted 1kV)
https://www.electricalconnects.com/frontend/images/design_items/medium-voltage-technical-guide.pdf

NEC :
High voltage >1000V Anything
Low voltage <1000V Anything

IEC 61140 :
High voltage >1000V AC, >1500V DC
Low voltage <1000V AC, <1500V DC

IEC 62368 :
Applies to low voltage equipment, limit set at 600V
...
...

"Danger High Voltage"
(sign commonly posted on equipment which does not have any voltage over 400V)
...
...

"High voltage"
(refers to programming of EPROMs at 12V)
https://onlinedocs.microchip.com/oxy/GUID-8D61C0B9-A97F-4F4D-99F8-1D7424264C2A-en-US-1/GUID-CA9262E1-93FF-4B4C-910A-BD5BBEE477A3.html

 74   General / General Discussion / Re: More Lamp Calculations Stuff  on: January 17, 2026, 07:04:17 PM 
Started by Multisubject - Last post by Multisubject
@Ash
I am aware that CWA is pretty much a fixed impedance when running at a fixed voltage load, and yes impedance this is easy to calculate. But I want to be able to know all of it's possible range of impedances at all of the voltages that could be on it. I want to make it into an equation. Preferably this would not be through load testing, but if that is what must happen then I have no choice.

I was thinking of load testing my two CWA ballasts to see their specs, just as I have done for my HX ballast. When I did it with my HX ballasts, I used the output terminals of an old Variac as a load (variable inductive load). This worked fine, starting at a short circuit and making my way up the windings of the variac. Unsurprisingly when I tried this with CWA, working my way up from a dead short on the Variac actually increased the measured current, because of the capacitor acting as the primary impedance.

Do you have any other suggestions to be able to load test a CWA ballast and get it's characteristics, or ways to calculate instead of load testing? Could I use various different value capacitors as a load (I have countless)? I don't really want to shell out a bunch of money for a Variac-sized wirewound pot just to do this. I only have a lamp for one of my two CWA ballasts, and I really don't want to have to use it because it is very temperamental.

I was not aware that CWA OCV wasn't sinusoidal, that is news to me. I can't even begin to imagine why that is the case.

If I do get these current/voltage points somehow, I will likely plot it on a graph in Desmos so I can have it make the equation of best fit for it. Then I can actually use the data.
 75   General / General Discussion / Re: Definition of HID Lamps  on: January 17, 2026, 06:51:14 PM 
Started by Multisubject - Last post by dor123
Any light bulb that have a bright arc is HID. Fluorescent and LPS lamps, don't have a bright arc, so they aren't HID lamps.
 76   General / General Discussion / Re: Unintentional Fluorescent Tube Cannon  on: January 17, 2026, 06:45:36 PM 
Started by Multisubject - Last post by Multisubject
@Ash
Yes absolutely, we have deer, rabbits, and birds everywhere. I would use my screened-in porch if I were to ever do this (which I probably won't).
 77   General / General Discussion / Re: More Lamp Calculations Stuff  on: January 17, 2026, 06:39:14 PM 
Started by Multisubject - Last post by Ash
All calculations we have done so far using those (and related) formulas refer to a steady state condition, or at least an assumed steady state condition. (i.e. they will hold for a warming up lamp too, as long as you use voltage and current measurements made at the same moment)

All processes which are slow (ie. temperature related, as well as any feedback loops going through temperature) are not covered by those calculations, but the opposite is also true : The calculations do hold for any momentary condition, regardless of the long term trends



In steady state, the characteristics of any electrical circuit, which only passes sinewave voltages and currents, can be calculated by linear equations (e.g. Ohms law, vector sum of voltages, etc). When our voltage is not a sinewave, the first thing we can do is disregard this and keep assuming it is sinewave, which is often close enough (and the differences can be packed into empirical factors, such as the lamp power factor)

CWA is not that much different, but there are 2 caveats :

The magnetic saturation mechanism changes the ballast impedance. I.e. we can calculate the impedance from measurements in the running circuit and it will be correct, but not useful because the impedance will be different if the same ballast is powered in another circuit / at different warm up state / etc

With an array of measurements, we can plot a dependence graph which will be correct and useful, even if we don't have the formula for it

CWA Voc is sometimes not sinewave, but sort of a sinewave with warped peaks. However, it is sinewave enough for many purposes, and is clamped to far different waveforms when a lamp is running anyway, and even with them we still use the same calculations....



Go test a bunch of lamps....



If you do accumulate such data, put it in a spreadsheet (e.g. Libreoffice Calc) and you will be able to make useful reference plots with it, interpolate it and more

 78   General / General Discussion / Re: Definition of HID Lamps  on: January 17, 2026, 06:30:07 PM 
Started by Multisubject - Last post by Multisubject
@AngryHorse
That is what I would think, but one of the definitions I came across specifically said that the light output shouldn't be by the incandescence of the electrodes (which CA is). I don't know why they made this distinction (or if it is even accurate). I always considered it HID but of course I don't know for sure.

@Ash
Of course for things like that there are many arbitrary personal definitions of high and low voltage. I was hoping there was a more concrete definition applying to discharge intensities.
 79   General / General Discussion / Re: Definition of HID Lamps  on: January 17, 2026, 06:20:16 PM 
Started by Multisubject - Last post by Ash
Go ask a linesman, commercial electrician, home electrician, and various electronics people in specific fields, what counts as "high" and "low" voltage
 80   General / General Discussion / Re: "E" Shape vs "ED" Shape Envelopes?  on: January 17, 2026, 06:07:40 PM 
Started by Multisubject - Last post by Ash
ED is an evolution of E, and those single letter lamp designations can only encode so much information about the actual shape of the lamp. Besides, are there any luminaires where the dimple makes any difference for the use of the lamp ?
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