Lighting-Gallery.net
General => General Videos => Topic started by: GE PM on November 27, 2023, 02:37:13 PM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDiXNsWQzD0
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Interesting. But they're not "historic artifacts" any more, not with LED in them. "Historic" doesn't mean LED; carbon arc isn't practical any more, I get that, but they could at least have kept them MV >:(
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Eventually, due to widespread bans and discontinuations of traditional non-LED light sources, it will eventually become impractical to use anything other than LED for general lighting since there will come a point where traditional non-LED light sources become too “rare” and “historically significant” to use every day like you see with carbon arc lamps because their numbers will eventually be far too small to be able to maintain an adequate supply of lamps that can be replaced.
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LED is just another lighting technology. People probably felt the same when it was converted to MV. It does look really good in 3000K though, much better than the harsh cold light that the MV lamps (and previous carbon arc lamps produced).
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L*D may well be 'just another lighting technology', but we feel that it's the Japanese knotweed of lighting and is slowly choking everything else to death. :curse:
That is the reason we dislike them so much, slowly but surely we are being deprived of other choices in lighting. :'(
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Once again, the same could be said about "S*X" when it replaced mercury streetlights in the 1960s and 1970s.
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Eventually, sellers on eBay will want extremely high prices for anything that is NOT LED due to the increasing rarity of NON-LED sources like someone may want somewhere around $500 for just a single mercury vapor lamp, a high pressure sodium lamp, or a single metal halide lamp because of how rare they will eventually become in the near future and it will also seem like our ‘wanted’ section will be filled with requests to find any NON-LED sources such as “Wanted: fluorescent tubes”, “Wanted: high pressure sodium lamps”, “Wanted: mercury vapor lamps”, etc.
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LED is just another lighting technology. People probably felt the same when it was converted to MV. It does look really good in 3000K though, much better than the harsh cold light that the MV lamps (and previous carbon arc lamps produced).
I agree 100%.
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@ Mandolin Girl : EEEEK ! Japanese Knotweed !!! I have a small jungle of it in my side yard !! NOTHING kills it !! I actually poured some Muriatic acid on some near my driveway and it went all brown and shriveled :DeAtH: . 2 weeks later , it was back like nothing ever happened !!! :poof:
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Interesting idea, but unusual choice of lamp colour?, for true moonlight effect as carbon arc would have been, daylight white LED would surly be a closer effect to the original ones?
Although I can understand from an environmental point of view why they didn’t used them?, but its what I would have specified for that true moonlight effect? 8)
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LED is just another lighting technology. People probably felt the same when it was converted to MV. It does look really good in 3000K though, much better than the harsh cold light that the MV lamps (and previous carbon arc lamps produced).
I get what you’re saying here, but I wouldn’t call LED ‘just another lighting technology’?, I see it as more as THE lighting technology that has superseded everything else!
Although this will be an unpopular opinion, the fact is it’s a massive step forward, (in efficiency, simplicity and brightness), than its HID counterparts?
To be fair, it’s only lighting enthusiasts that miss the old lighting tech, but from a scientific point of view of artificial light, older lighting techs are just not needed anymore!
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I know I go on about it, but the objections we have here are simply due to a lack of choice.
When LED lamps first became available, we used them, but when they introduced all the bans and said effectively "You WILL use LED" whether we wanted to or not, that was the tipping point. Domestically, we're still able to use other lamps, as we already had enough in stock, but we didn't have a choice when it came to street lighting, they just unceremoniously ripped out entire streets of perfectly working HPS/MH and replaced them wholesale with pathetic fixtures which don't light up the area nearly as well. A step forward in brightness..? Not around here, it isn't..!
There is a step outside our block that was very well illuminated by the 70W HPS post top that used to be there. It got replaced by an LED so useless that it only illuminates a small patch at the base of the column, the step is now in complete darkness at night; imagine coming home after a night out and tripping up the step, or going out and falling down it, possibly resulting in quite a nasty injury.
Sorry if I'm boring anybody.
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@ Mandolin Girl : EEEEK ! Japanese Knotweed !!! I have a small jungle of it in my side yard !! NOTHING kills it !! I actually poured some Muriatic acid on some near my driveway and it went all brown and shriveled :DeAtH: . 2 weeks later , it was back like nothing ever happened !!! :poof:
You might want to try some of this (https://www.thoughtco.com/the-worlds-strongest-superacid-603639) on it.!!! :DeAtH: :mrg:
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LED replacements have also enabled me to acquire HID and fluorescent fixtures I could only dream about getting. You won’t believe the good trash finds I have gotten recently!
I want to try and design my own SOX LED replacements that actually produce satisfactory light and actually saves energy (no ballast losses) The light would have low glare, monochromatic (narrowband) amber/yellow or red light, and sensibly driven LEDs and adequate heatsinking (and maybe using the red LEDs to recreate a SOX warmup??)
Imagine that, a lighting collector designing an LED lighting system…
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I know I go on about it, but the objections we have here are simply due to a lack of choice.
When LED lamps first became available, we used them, but when they introduced all the bans and said effectively "You WILL use LED" whether we wanted to or not, that was the tipping point. Domestically, we're still able to use other lamps, as we already had enough in stock, but we didn't have a choice when it came to street lighting, they just unceremoniously ripped out entire streets of perfectly working HPS/MH and replaced them wholesale with pathetic fixtures which don't light up the area nearly as well. A step forward in brightness..? Not around here, it isn't..!
There is a step outside our block that was very well illuminated by the 70W HPS post top that used to be there. It got replaced by an LED so useless that it only illuminates a small patch at the base of the column, the step is now in complete darkness at night; imagine coming home after a night out and tripping up the step, or going out and falling down it, possibly resulting in quite a nasty injury.
Sorry if I'm boring anybody.
Not at all boring ;), but this lack of choice is coming from a lighting enthusiast!, Mr and Mrs Joe Public don’t give this a second thought when they turn the lights on at night.
Also I’m sure the term ‘lamp bans’ only came from LG!, I think the lighting industry an EU was calling them phase outs?
I’m still using electronic CFL everywhere in the house, but I’m not unhappy their not made anymore as their efficiency was improved with LED so CFL is no longer needed? but if I still have them then I’m going to use them from an enthusiasts point of view.
Today, and it’s still taken 10 years or so, LED can do everything older tech could, i.e, be successfully dimmed, provide different CCTs for different moods, power large spaces outside cheaper and more instantly than discharge did, and light the streets as good as older techs did, ( providing decent fittings have been used of course )!
Older tech is disappearing fast not because of tyrannical bans, but simply because none of it is needed anymore in the general population?
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Ok, so who's responsible if I break my leg tripping on the step that now has no illumination..? I could carry a torch, in fact there's one in my bag most of the time, but if you're on the way back from the pub, you don't always think of these things, and in any case, street lighting is supposed to light the streets, not just a small pool at the bottom of the lamp post.
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Did you ever write a letter to Aberdeen council?, point out more powerful fittings are needed around the tower block?, or even some on the building depending who owns it?
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Not in writing, maybe we should. Oh it's not a tower block, just a 3-storey one.
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More things to consider when designing my lighting system are brightness and “reach” of the light.
But what is everyone’s opinion on narrowband (monochromatic) amber (1800K) LEDs for street lighting?
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@HIDLad001
Those could work but you can also try and find PCA (Phosphor-Converted Amber) LED diodes
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Those usually have much better CRI, but the CCT is a bit higher like a high pressure sodium lamp. I prefer the 1800K SOX lamp color.
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Not in writing, maybe we should. Oh it's not a tower block, just a 3-storey one.
Ah got ya ;), could you offer to have your own lighting installed on the grounds that you maintain it?
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Don't know, I suppose we could ask. As long as it doesn't come off our leccy meter :mrg:
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More things to consider when designing my lighting system are brightness and “reach” of the light.
But what is everyone’s opinion on narrowband (monochromatic) amber (1800K) LEDs for street lighting?
Interesting about monochrome LED, I really don’t have a valid answer to this :), SOX was monochrome because of what it was, I’m on the fence though as to why this would be needed to be recreated using LED? There’s only been colours in street lighting because of the lighting tech used through the years?
What would the ideal CCT be for street lighting?, visual acuity can be achieved best by colours from the total opposite ends of the spectrum, i.e, 1800K and 6500K, however YouTube channel Technology Connections pointed out that sodium lighting wasn’t actually an ideal choice at all!
I supposed we’d all have our own conclusions on here, but lower levels of lighting would be a start than super bright?
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It would be more to protect wildlife and the night sky, because that’s what SOX lamps were most used for in the US.
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Whereas here they were just an efficient answer to the 70s energy crisis! :D
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If they were used for wildlife protection and dark sky use in the UK, narrowband amber LED replacements would probably be widespread.
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I guess it’s also a personal preference?, everyone is different, as Ria has said, Sammi suffers from night blindness, so LED and white light don’t work in that situation?
Me personally, I noticed something cycling home from work tonight, street lighting here has now become obsessed with very heigh columns with powerful lights on!, going back to our SOX days in our town we used to have just 5 metres concrete columns carrying 35 watt SOX, (lower lighting levels on lower columns), even on the A roads! and as I remember them it was enough for street lighting.
Now on these same routes, we have 8/10 meter columns carrying brighter lanterns as if mounting powerful lights higher up somehow illuminates the roads better!
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That’s how it is in the US. We have bright lights on very high utility poles with long arms. I have only seen a minimum of 50w LED installed around here, and that might be why I like it.
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Interesting about monochrome LED, I really don’t have a valid answer to this :), SOX was monochrome because of what it was, I’m on the fence though as to why this would be needed to be recreated using LED? There’s only been colours in street lighting because of the lighting tech used through the years?
White light of the CCT that most LEDs put out is very disruptive to wildlife. Also, the fact that SOX is monochrome means that contrast is excellent, so you see movement more easily. Colour temperature for street lighting shouldn't be an issue for drivers, you have excellent CCT from your headlights.
I supposed we’d all have our own conclusions on here, but lower levels of lighting would be a start than super bright?
You want low levels of lighting..? Come to our street, what have I been saying..?
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When I visited Flagstaff, AZ in the summer, I noticed that they do use a good number of amber LED corn cob lamps and integrated amber LED fixtures over there to help minimize light pollution and protect nocturnal wildlife.
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Most of the old HPS streetlights here were complete glarebombs, and a bit too bright for a residential street. The new LEDs are slightly dimmer (lumen wise), but to my eyes they appear about as bright as the HPS lights.
Enclosed (https://www.lighting-gallery.net/gallery/displayimage.php?album=7440&pos=4&pid=216330) is a picture of what a typical LED streetlight for a footpath looks like. It is 50w and 3000K in color temperature, and quite a pleasure to walk under.
I will share a picture of a representation of what the LED post top outside my house looks like at night (to my eyes at least).
Maybe the brighter LED street lighting in the US would be brighter to Ria’s eyes to what is commonly installed in the UK.
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White light of the CCT that most LEDs put out is very disruptive to wildlife. Also, the fact that SOX is monochrome means that contrast is excellent, so you see movement more easily. Colour temperature for street lighting shouldn't be an issue for drivers, you have excellent CCT from your headlights.
You want low levels of lighting..? Come to our street, what have I been saying..?
Low level lighting as in fully cut off LED lanterns at a low height yes, that’s a bad set up, what I mean is if they changed the columns in your street to run LED retrofit lamps in something, for example, like Thorn’s Beta Four, that would scatter light all around would work better with lower wattage lamps?
The post tops you originally had did this perfectly but with the drawbacks of little to no light on the actual road?
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We had Industria Arc 80's or 90's, don't recall which. And both road and pavement were illuminated very well indeed. Which is why it was such a shock to come back to what we're now saddled with :sadbulb: >:(
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@ Sammi : Even that probably wouldn't kill these super weeds ! From what I've read , the only sure way to eradicate it is to completely remove and replace ALL contaminated soil and replace with new . Even then , the article said if so much as a 1/4" scrap of root is left , the entire colony WILL return !
@ HIDLad001 : I agree about most streetlights being too bright . The US seems to lean towards much brighter lights than the rest of the world. There's a 200w HPS M250R2 at the end of my street which could easily be replaced with something in the 70w range . Brighter isn't always better ! Lighting that provides better contrast makes more sense than something that's brighter just for the sake of being brighter . I'm sure the girl in the black hoodie of which I clipped with the side mirror in my van 10 or so years ago would agree with that !! Didn't even see her until she was about 15 ft from my front corner ! :P YES , she was OK !! I'd much rather have something that lights relatively evenly than something that's a zillion lumens of pure glare !
@ Ria : My biggest grips with LED streetlights are the shear lack of any form of glare management in 90% of the lights I've seen . Combine that with the God awful high color temps ! Even the lower color temps can still be just as blinding when no optical control is used .
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We had Industria Arc 80's or 90's, don't recall which. And both road and pavement were illuminated very well indeed. Which is why it was such a shock to come back to what we're now saddled with :sadbulb: >:(
Your city appears to have Philips Lumas and Urbis Axis 2's.
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No idea what they are, don't care either, I want my HID back :'(