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Lamps => Modern => Topic started by: Jovan on January 24, 2021, 04:21:06 PM

Title: Difference between ML and MLL lamps
Post by: Jovan on January 24, 2021, 04:21:06 PM
Hello to everyone.I was looking throughout gallery and noticed that some SBMV lamps have MLL on them ?Is there a huge difference between ML and MLL lamps ?
Title: Re: Difference between ML and MLL lamps
Post by: sox35 on January 24, 2021, 07:01:38 PM
In the Dutch mercury nomenclature system, ML means mercury blended, MLL means it has a luminescent (fluorescent) coating, see here (http://lamptech.co.uk/Documents/M4%20Nomenclature.htm).

The British equivalent is MBT and MBTF.
Title: Re: Difference between ML and MLL lamps
Post by: Jovan on January 25, 2021, 03:53:13 PM
In the Dutch mercury nomenclature system, ML means mercury blended, MLL means it has a luminescent (fluorescent) coating, see here (http://lamptech.co.uk/Documents/M4%20Nomenclature.htm).

The British equivalent is MBT and MBTF.
Thank you.So ML coating doesn't glow under UV ?
Title: Re: Difference between ML and MLL lamps
Post by: sox35 on January 25, 2021, 04:24:51 PM
Thank you.So ML coating doesn't glow under UV ?
Well my ML lamp (https://www.lighting-gallery.net/gallery/displayimage.php?album=4839&pos=17&pid=187978) is a pearl coating like an incandescent lamp. Here (https://www.lighting-gallery.net/gallery/displayimage.php?album=4839&pos=16&pid=188102) is the equivalent MLL lamp.
Title: Re: Difference between ML and MLL lamps
Post by: Jovan on January 26, 2021, 04:27:33 PM
Well my ML lamp (https://www.lighting-gallery.net/gallery/displayimage.php?album=4839&pos=17&pid=187978) is a pearl coating like an incandescent lamp. Here (https://www.lighting-gallery.net/gallery/displayimage.php?album=4839&pos=16&pid=188102) is the equivalent MLL lamp.
My ML has coating which is similar to your MLL lamp coating.My model is from 2001,so maybe there is some difference.Are MLL lamps still made to this day ?
Title: Re: Difference between ML and MLL lamps
Post by: sox35 on January 26, 2021, 04:28:40 PM
Very unlikely, I would have thought  :-\
Title: Re: Difference between ML and MLL lamps
Post by: Jovan on January 26, 2021, 04:36:22 PM
Very unlikely, I would have thought  :-\
I will need to use UV lamp to see is coating on ML lamps from 2001 glowing.I think that back in the day ML lamps were made to be similar to standard MV bulbs which needed ballast and had diffuse coating only.Later they started using powder which glows under UV and MLL got its name,and after many years they discontinued lamps which had diffuse coating and started to use phosphorus which glows under UV only.
Title: Re: Difference between ML and MLL lamps
Post by: Medved on January 27, 2021, 06:39:08 AM
I will need to use UV lamp to see is coating on ML lamps from 2001 glowing.I think that back in the day ML lamps were made to be similar to standard MV bulbs which needed ballast and had diffuse coating only.Later they started using powder which glows under UV and MLL got its name,and after many years they discontinued lamps which had diffuse coating and started to use phosphorus which glows under UV only.

But many phosphor materials are sensitive to just the UV, while the outer bulb material is specifically designed to block that UV from passing through, so you won't be able to excite the glow from the outside.
Title: Re: Difference between ML and MLL lamps
Post by: Jovan on January 27, 2021, 06:50:12 AM
But many phosphor materials are sensitive to just the UV, while the outer bulb material is specifically designed to block that UV from passing through, so you won't be able to excite the glow from the outside.
Yes I saw that on many lamps.Only reliable solution for that test would be hot restriking the lamp.I will try and notice everyone there.
Title: Re: Difference between ML and MLL lamps
Post by: James on January 27, 2021, 04:01:17 PM
ML means Mixed Light, and MLL means Mixed Light Luminescent.  However Philips seems not to have been consistent in its nomenclature, because I have several ML lamps that also use fluorescent coating.  Sometimes they also marked lamps as MLL-N and MLL-C, to indicate that they were using New or Comfort type phosphors.
Title: Re: Difference between ML and MLL lamps
Post by: Mandolin Girl on January 27, 2021, 04:41:14 PM
ML means Mixed Light, and MLL means Mixed Light Luminescent.  However Philips seems not to have been consistent in its nomenclature, because I have several ML lamps that also use fluorescent coating.  Sometimes they also marked lamps as MLL-N and MLL-C, to indicate that they were using New or Comfort type phosphors.
A very informative post as always James, thank you.  :-*
Title: Re: Difference between ML and MLL lamps
Post by: Jovan on January 27, 2021, 05:06:44 PM
ML means Mixed Light, and MLL means Mixed Light Luminescent.  However Philips seems not to have been consistent in its nomenclature, because I have several ML lamps that also use fluorescent coating.  Sometimes they also marked lamps as MLL-N and MLL-C, to indicate that they were using New or Comfort type phosphors.
Thank You for info.I think that my ML lamps use luminescent coating.Are C coating bulbs still made ?
Title: Re: Difference between ML and MLL lamps
Post by: James on January 30, 2021, 03:39:15 PM
I don’t think the ML-C was ever listed as standard, but some collectors here have examples from the 1980s/90s.  Even the standard ML are no longer produced by Signify.
Title: Re: Difference between ML and MLL lamps
Post by: Jovan on January 30, 2021, 05:10:40 PM
I don’t think the ML-C was ever listed as standard, but some collectors here have examples from the 1980s/90s.  Even the standard ML are no longer produced by Signify.
Signify is owner of Philips,right ?
Philips has ML lamps on their site.I've never seen Signify lamps on sale ?Will Philips name on lamps disappear one day ?
Title: Re: Difference between ML and MLL lamps
Post by: sox35 on January 30, 2021, 05:14:03 PM
Signify is owner of Philips,right ?
Philips has ML lamps on their site.I've never seen Signify lamps on sale ?Will Philips name on lamps dissappear one day ?

I wouldn't be at all surprised  :(

To me, it is sad what has happened to a once great company  :-\
Title: Re: Difference between ML and MLL lamps
Post by: Jovan on January 30, 2021, 05:17:00 PM
I wouldn't be at all surprised  :(

To me, it is sad what has happened to a once great company  :-\
Yes.Luckily their lamps are common.We can say that our local bulbs are the best,but the Philips brought their techbology to almost every factory in Europe after WW2 and it woould be shame to disappear.
Title: Re: Difference between ML and MLL lamps
Post by: James on February 01, 2021, 07:45:03 AM
Yes Philips sold its Lighting division to a Chinese investment bank a couple of years ago, and they re-named the company Signify.  For now Signify has the right to use the Philips brand under a royalty scheme, but I think they may drop that.  It’s interesting to see that Signify has been resurrecting its old Mazda brand in some countries, so I wonder if they might not change to that so as to realise a big cost saving by ending the brand royalty payments to Philips.
Title: Re: Difference between ML and MLL lamps
Post by: Jovan on February 01, 2021, 05:48:58 PM
Yes Philips sold its Lighting division to a Chinese investment bank a couple of years ago, and they re-named the company Signify.  For now Signify has the right to use the Philips brand under a royalty scheme, but I think they may drop that.  It’s interesting to see that Signify has been resurrecting its old Mazda brand in some countries, so I wonder if they might not change to that so as to realise a big cost saving by ending the brand royalty payments to Philips.
Was Philips in minus with production or they don't want to make lamps anymore ?Even though that Philips is brand which is common here their lamps can be rare and interesting.This is quite respected brand here among Tesla.
Title: Re: Difference between ML and MLL lamps
Post by: sox35 on February 01, 2021, 05:54:28 PM
Sadly, I think that all the people in charge now (investment bankers, remember) want to do is make money. Brands, products, or the quality of them, or even the customer, isn't important any more. All that matters is the bottom line.

Perhaps I'm being over-cynical, and I have to be careful not to stray into dangerous or political territory here, but I really do think that all that they care about is how much money they're making  :-\
Title: Re: Difference between ML and MLL lamps
Post by: Jovan on February 01, 2021, 06:06:25 PM
Sadly, I think that all the people in charge now (investment bankers, remember) want to do is make money. Brands, products, or the quality of them, or even the customer, isn't important any more. All that matters is the bottom line.

Perhaps I'm being over-cynical, and I have to be careful not to stray into dangerous or political territory here, but I really do think that all that they care about is how much money they're making  :-\
I don't see this as political,because we are talkibg about owner of factory and its future.I don't get mad,triggered or furious when normal political discussion is held.
Title: Re: Difference between ML and MLL lamps
Post by: sox35 on February 01, 2021, 06:09:10 PM
I don't see this as political,because we are talkibg about owner of factory and its future.I don't get mad,triggered or furious when normal political discussion is held.
All the same, let's try to stay on topic, please.
Title: Re: Difference between ML and MLL lamps
Post by: Olav on February 07, 2021, 07:52:37 PM
Hello Jovan,

here is a comparison between two PHILIPS ML160-lamps:

(https://www.lighting-gallery.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bremsenbude.de%2Fleuchten%2FPHILIPS_ML160clear_PHILIPS_ML160blended.jpg&hash=682120cc48590165ec03082212044d5dc2d93e61)

Both lamps named ML 160


Greetings from Hamburg

Olav
Title: Re: Difference between ML and MLL lamps
Post by: Jovan on February 08, 2021, 04:26:09 PM
Hello Jovan,

here is a comparison between two PHILIPS ML160-lamps:


Greetings from Hamburg

Olav
Awesome lamps.These are quite old.Thanks for photo